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This week and next, I want to share with you a 'fireside chat' that I had with Cara Cunniff from Precision Property. Cara has a wonderful back story, where the only constant was change. She also has a some really sound advice on setting up and structuring your property business and in particular how best to systemise and automate certain elements of the process. Listen this week as we discuss the 6 hallmarks of a property business and next week for some more in-depth discussion around specific systems and automated processes.
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Transcription of the show
This week and next, I want to share with you a 'fireside chat' that I had with Cara Cunniff from Precision Property. Cara has a wonderful back story, where the only constant was change. She also has a some really sound advice on setting up and structuring your property business and in particular how best to systemise and automate certain elements of the process. Listen this week as we discuss the 6 hallmarks of a property business and next week for some more in-depth discussion around specific systems and automated processes.
Property Chatter
Transcription of the Show
- Okay. Hey there Cara. How are you doing?
- I'm good, thank you.
- Great, Cara Conner thanks a lot for joining me today on the sofa. We're gonna have a fireside chat literally, and we're gonna talk amongst other things, systems. But I think before we do that, and just to address everybody is... Cara why don't you tell us a little bit about you, your background, and how you got into property first of all, before we maybe get into a different kind of topic. Is that okay?
- Yeah, that's great. Thank you, Richard. Well, thank you for for having me here today. So my background actually started, in property, started at the age of six, when my mother, my parents separated, and my mother bought and sold properties throughout the eighties. So I was inspired watching her. And by the time I was 18, I'd lived in 12 properties. Right from the sort of two bed maisonette, which was our first property, all the way through to a penthouse in West London. So I've really watched my mother transform her life through property. And at the age of about, just after university actually, my mother gave me 5,000 pounds and said, "Right, it's now your turn." So I bought my first property, and actually this was a property I lived in. It was a two bed apartment in Aldershot and I rented it out to a, well I lived in one room, and one of my best friends lived in the other room. So she paid the rent, or she paid the mortgage I should say. That was fantastic. And from there I have just bought and sold properties throughout my, I suppose the last 20 years or so. It's a bit scary when you say that. And I have also, during this time, and it's really been a mainstay for me, property, because I'm married to the military, so we have lived all over the world. We've lived in four different countries. With the military, I have alone moved 12 times in 20 years. So property has allowed me to have an income, and one day we will have to buy our family home which we haven't got at the moment. So that's where it really started with the, I knew one day I was gonna have to buy my family home and then it grew into actually a portfolio of property. We focus on what I'd say is sort of high value apartments mostly in the likes of Canary Wharf and Woolwich. We do have property in Liverpool. We have also a house and we're building a three bed house in Farhnam at the moment. And we're doing all of that from Belguim, because that's where we're living at the moment.
- Okay. With the military?
- With the military. With the military. To just give you a little more about my background. I started in consulting, well my first career was in consulting, in business consulting and I love business, I love systems, I love efficiency. So my focus and my outlook in everything I do is about how can I make this as streamlined and efficient as possible? Also, I served with the Royal Engineers, as a reservist officer, for five or six years. And so a lot of the way I approach things is through military precision. So and I've bought and sold various businesses as well. So I have a very diverse background. And all of that coming together has put me in a position where I've just founded a company called Property Precision. The aim of the business is to develop property investors to work smarter and to build performance into their organizations so that they can save time, so that they can save money, so that they can build on their businesses and really build a strong base for their business. So, ya, a very diverse background.
- Ya, fantastic. What a great story. And you know, I think it is amazing to have a role model that you did with your mother.
- Oh absolutely.
- So, she sort of seed coined, invested into you to get you going then left you on your own I guess pretty much.
- She did. And actually she lives in Spain now and has a wonderful life. And I remember looking back and seeing her make decisions that at the time I didn't agree with. You know we would always get a property together. And I remember one particular property I absolutely loved, absolutely loved, because I could envisage my bedroom. I had already chosen the wallpaper. But my mom absolutely, you know, nope, it's not the right one. We're moving on. And I just kept, please can we get that? Please can we get that?
- But you were thinking more of as a home.
- Yes I was thinking of it as. And for my mom it was a home. It was a home for us, but actually in the back of her mind it was also about her building her future.
- Of course.
- Which she did very successfully.
- Yah. I guess that, it sounds like you had a lot of change by the way.
- Yes.
- Both in childhood and obviously with the military. Married to the military as you say. So I guess that is the constant in your life.
- Ya, change is my constant.
- Ya, we did have a little chat didn't we, before we started filming, about that. And I think that's probably gonna be really useful when we get into that kind of, how you cope with that you know, constant change. You can probably give me a few tips actually. I'm looking forward to that. But, so really good story. So a couple of things that really resonate with me. One is the whole business. Treating property, whatever you were doing, as a business operation. Clearly you seem to share that outlook. I think the other thing that really appeals to me is the precision or the systems side of it. But as I shared with you, it's not exactly my personal strength. But I heard you when we talked before and I thought maybe there's some good news there. You probably know where I'm going. But I think you've got sort of an outlook or a methodology almost, haven't you? In terms of how you look at this. Do you wanna share a little bit about that?
- Yes, absolutely. I should say first of all that the company values, our values are engage with precision, take control, and then set yourself free. I think it's really important to see it in those three stages.
- Precision, control and freedom.
- Precision, control, freedom. It's a long term, a long term view. I think within the property industry, with the complexity, and the speed of change that we've gone through, economically, socially, politically as we see this week. You know there are changes afoot and we need to be able to adapt to them. We need to be able to embrace them, not be fearful of them because they are going to happen. If you are in the property industry you are not gonna be able to sell properties just like that. You have to be able to run with what's happening. And, something that I've been developing over the last, I suppose in my career, except I've really been developing the insights recently is about an ecosystem of performance. It's really important that businesses don't just set themselves up as businesses, they set themselves up as a performing business. What I mean by that is, we have six hallmarks, when I say hallmark I'm talking of a principle, and a framework, that an organization can look at at an individual, and it's really important to think about this from an individual's perspective as well as an organization's perspective in terms of how you are performing because actually you can only manage what you can measure.
- Correct. Peter Drucker?
- Yes absolutely, absolutely. That stands the test of time. So it's about looking at your business in terms of how it's performing. We have six hallmarks, six principles. And the first one is around people being vital, Oh sorry, no actually it's not.
- It's not the first one.
- No, no, no. Can we take that bit out?
- We can yeah, it's no problem.
- So in the military you have ends, ways and means. You start with the end in mind. So you absolutely know what your--
- Stephen Covey.
- Yes absolutely, and we call that clarity of purpose.
- Clarity of purpose.
- Clarity of purpose. And purpose is a word that we've chosen really specifically because purpose is about what is your personal purpose? But it's also about what is your purpose within the context of responsibility? So are you giving back to the environment? And it is really important that each one of us individually looks at that. Are we looking at property within a sustainable context? It's also about responsibility to trades, to tenants, particularly. Are you working with a duty of care to your tenants? And it's also about responsibility to yourself. Are you looking after yourself? Are you developing yourself? You know I'm a believer. We are only here once, so you have to make the best of it. So it's about clarity of purpose, and understanding that you've got clear goals, you set the right objectives, you've got good strategy. And we work with clients on developing that, that clarity of purpose. The next thing is--
- Just before maybe you dive on something. I don't know what you think about this, but the word purpose has another meaning as well, doesn't it? It's being deliberate.
- Absolutely.
- So I think you can play that one as well. I don't know if you do.
- Well, purpose actually, also flips to one of our other hallmarks, which is about being disciplined.
- Okay so we can come back to that one.
- We can come back to that, ya.
- Fair enough. I just thought it was an interesting point. But yes sorry, I interrupted your point. That was the first one.
- So the first one. Then the second one is about nurturing resources. First of all it's identifying the resources you've got. Within the military context that's ends, ways and means. That the resources elements is the means. What do you have, in order to achieve your objectives?
- It could be intellectual property, it could be finances, it could be other things I guess.
- People, and time.
- Ya, okay.
- Time is something that--
- Somewhat limited.
- Well, but the question is, is it limited? Is it limited or is this how we manage our time? I would say actually time isn't the problem, it's prioritization that's the problem. And that's where the human behavior side of things feeds into this.
- Okay.
- So it's really about managing your time. It's really about being deliberate, prioritizing. And one of the things I like to do in the business is to teach things that aren't taught. And I say that because this isn't something that's specifically taught in schools, how to manage time, but actually time is, as you say, is limited.
- Our personal time is limited but we can leverage it, can't we?
- We can absolutely leverage it. So time is one of our resources. And we really need to nurture our resources. And that means protecting them. So when we're making our decisions, you know, as you mentioned deliberate decisions aren't, you know when we are taking the decision to build the next house or to buy the next property, are we protecting, at the same time, the resources that we've got, and not making rush decisions? So those are the first two hallmarks, or principles within our ecosystem of performance.
- Purpose and nurturing our resources.
- Absolutely, absolutely. And then moving on, it's about people being vital. And this is where prioritization comes in. This is where we look at time. This is where it's really important for investors to consider how they are spending their time, are they spending their time on the high value activities that only they can do?
- That only they can do or only they're best suited to do?
- Well, both actually. Are they doing the jobs that they are the specialists in? Because there are lots of opportunities to outsource now. There are lots of websites that you can outsource on. You've got the likes of Upwork, Fiverr, or, lots of them.
- Fiverr, ya.
- Lot's of them where you might be able to find a V.A. to support you--
- A virtual assistant.
- A virtual assistant to support you in those other elements that you're not necessarily that good at. Or to be spending your time doing. So it's about working on the high value stuff.
- Just to pause on that thought a little bit. And just have to keep an eye on a little time as well. Just to pause on that thought a little bit, is the idea of, I've lost my train. I completely lost my train.
- The idea of.
- Yes, no. What did you say?
- Prioritization?
- Let's go. We're gonna cut that. So anyway, I've interrupted you so--
- It's all right, it's all right.
- Just coming right back. That thought will come back to me no doubt.
- So, being vital, prioritization. I've lost my train of thought now as well so...
- So people are Vital.
- Learning and adapting.
- Learning and adapting.
- After being vital, and working out where you are best suited to do a particular job, actually that also means that you've got a team that are also working, knowing what they are there to do. This then works really well into learning and adapting. We need to be learning organizations. We need to be learning investors. We need to develop. We need to be constantly be looking at what's happening in the world around us so that we are, and I'm offing, I'm really sorry .
- No, because I was gonna come in actually on that point because you've actually said, we need to learn and develop which I totally agree with. I consider myself a life long learner. Sometimes people just look at it from a point of view of I want to be a life long learner, you know, it is just an interest almost. But I think where you are probably going with it is actually it's essential for survival, because we need to be able to adapt to changes. We need to learn what policies, rules and tax laws--
- Absolutely.
- Are coming into place. Going back to one of your earlier points about nurturing resources, you know we've had how many new laws and regulations come in which can threaten our business so we need to get on top of that sort of thing. We need to develop new skills and systems, new business models in property for example, so that we don't become that dinosaur that becomes extinct. There's a purpose to the learning is what I'm saying.
- Absolutely. And there are so many fantastic books out there that feed into this learning.
- Any tips for us?
- Ya, "Atomic Habits" by James Clear. It's just the most wonderful book.
- Is he the guy who started with a blog and eventually--
- Ya, ya. He now does a 3-2-1 once a week and every single time I read a blog, I take something from it. You know habits are, and this comes back to motivation and willpower, actually. If we rely just on motivation and willpower, often, we will fail.
- I usually do, yeah. When I rely only on willpower.
- It's about developing habits. It's about, and actually something I meant to mention before I have done a lot of endurance sports and that's where the businesses have also been born through because I've completed a marathon in Morocco which is six mountains in seven days and lots of endurance stuff to a couple of iron man. But through that what you learn is that consistency is really, really important and that ties into habit forming. You've got to be consistent in whatever you do. So if you set yourself a target, you've got to build in habits. So as James Clear talks about habit stacking. You do something. So for example, if everyday you brush your teeth, and there is a new habit you want to form, then you link it to brushing your teeth, because you do it every single day. So if you have an exercise that you need to do, and for me personally, I do, I have some lower back issues and so I link that with brushing my teeth.
- That's a good idea.
- But that builds a consistency, that builds a consistency. And you can do that in any form, with anything that you want to do in the day. So it is a very easy way to develop habits.
- Sounds good. So we've got I think, how many of the hallmarks have we got through now?
- So we've gone through four.
- Four. We have another couple--
- We've got another couple.
- And I think we might come back to. Do you wanna come back in the next video or should we just get those extra two out first?
- Oh we can do that, ya, that's great, keep going, keep going.
- Lets get the extra two out and then we'll come back and maybe drill down a bit more.
- Okay, fine. So the next two are efficient and effective systems and processes. Efficient and effective are two words that are used heavily by the military. It's knowing that you are doing the right thing and then doing it well.
- Effective is doing the right thing. Good, I've got it right by the way. And efficient is doing it well.
- Yes, absolutely. And there is no point in doing the wrong task well. It's not going to move you forward. So you really do need to understand that in terms of defining systems. Systems can be simple. I think often when investors hear the word systems, they imagine a complex automated, I'm too small for this, I don't need systems. But actually you can build systems into your personal management of time, as well as a tenant management system for example, or a property management system. And even if you are a small investor but you've got maybe three or four HMO's, you know a tenant, a property management system is a very straightforward way to go because it helps you with compliance, it saves you time. And we can talk about this in more detail--
- I was gonna say maybe we can get back into that in the next video.
- The last hallmark, the last principle is being disciplined.
- Being disciplined.
- Ya, and discipline is I think something that is so important in the property industry. And I think the time it repays is when it's difficult. Because when it's easy, why do we need discipline? When we're buying that next house, why is it necessary? But actually, it's really important when times are hard.
- Just maybe as a closing thought because I'm getting a signal that we might be getting close to the limit. Just on that point of discipline, my wife recently took a new position and she had the interview with the CEO of the company, the business, and apparently the CEO literally said, "I don't wanna see any more candidates. "This is the one."
- Okay.
- Which of course is very that sort of thing. It's good for her. But she subsequently found out why, and the reason apparently he said that, I mean I'm sure there wasn't just one reason, but one of the reasons he said that was she mentioned. He asked about her motivation, and she said that she was an athlete. And you're nodding already, knowing what that means. So she was an athlete. She reached, you know, she represented her country, for example. So to get to that level of you know, you know what that entails, so it's the discipline. And he said, I understood, he understood immediately that that discipline would lead to high performance.
- Absolutely.
- This is one of the things that you've just been talking about. That's her by the way, not me. She's very good at motivating me, because of her own personal discipline, so we're a good team in that respect. But I just thought bringing that sort of more personal anecdote into the conversation right at the end to link it, but if you're happy at this point, I think what we'll do, is we'll probably take a little break right now after this first video, and when we're gonna come back, what I think we'd like to do maybe is drill down a little bit into some of the systems and we'll get into that conversation on what is a system. Is that okay with you?
- That's so perfect.
- Thank you. Join us back on the next video and we'll be right back. Thank you.
- All right, nice.
That's all from me this week, remember if you want to talk about anything from today’s show, or just talk property investing more generally, email me at podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, I would be happy to hear from you! The show notes can be found at our website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thanks very much for listening again this week, so all that left to say is ciao ciao!