I’m sharing a small handful of conversations with some of my property and business buddies over the next few weeks as a bridge between the old and the new podcast.
This week, my old buddy, Damien Fogg, joins me to talk a kind of ‘nonsense all sense’, if that makes any sense?
We cover a lot of ground from book writing and best-seller champagne-fuelled Thursdays to endowments, foundations and trust funds to tree planting and even Postman Pat gets a mention, would you believe?
Yes, it’s unscripted, rather random and at times, quite the hangover antidote to property investment.
My favourite quote is ‘property development is a bit of a pain in the arse’, just so you know what to expect!
Damien is always good value, but catch him whilst he’s sober, after celebrating another best-seller author credit…even if he has to share that with Anna Clare Harper (author name) - he’s gonna hate me for that one!
You meet people in this business that perhaps you wouldn’t otherwise, merely because of the shared interest In property. Well, Damien is such a rare breed, as you can’t help but love him despite the fact that he’s got a foul mouth and could literally scoop your heart out with a spoon.
You can probably tell this is all said with a deep sense of warmth and respect for one of the good guys in property and investment. Cheers buddy!
Listen in…if you dare!
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Transcription of the show
I’m sharing a small handful of conversations with some of my property and business buddies over the next few weeks as a bridge between the old and the new podcast.
This week, my old buddy, Damien Fogg, joins me to talk a kind of ‘nonsense all sense’, if that makes any sense?
We cover a lot of ground from book writing and best-seller champagne-fuelled Thursdays to endowments, foundations and trust funds to tree planting and even Postman Pat gets a mention, would you believe?
Yes, it’s unscripted, rather random and at times, quite the hangover antidote to property investment.
My favourite quote is ‘property development is a bit of a pain in the arse’, just so you know what to expect!
Damien is always good value, but catch him whilst he’s sober, after celebrating another best-seller author credit…even if he has to share that with Anna Clare Harper (author name) - he’s gonna hate me for that one!
You meet people in this business that perhaps you wouldn’t otherwise, merely because of the shared interest In property. Well, Damien is such a rare breed, as you can’t help but love him despite the fact that he’s got a foul mouth and could literally scoop your heart out with a spoon.
You can probably tell this is all said with a deep sense of warmth and respect for one of the good guys in property and investment. Cheers buddy!
Listen in…if you dare!
Property Chatter
Welcome to the property voice podcast helping you to navigate safely through the world of property investing, get the lowdown and updates, insights and outcomes on all matters property with a splash of entertainment along the way, the property voice, a voice to trust among the crowd. Now, let's get started with your host, Richard Brown.
Welcome to another episode of the property voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown. As always, it's a pleasure to have you join me again on the show today. And these mini Insio conversations I'm going to be having with some of my buddies and business buddies and property buddies, it's just a few of them over the next couple of weeks, he's going to be a kind of a transition, because it's going to be a bit of a change in how the podcast is going to look at some point in the future. So what I thought I'd do is invite a few of my friends to just join me in a conversation or two, as a bit of a segue to that. And the very first guest actually that I've invited where you go. He certainly gave me a fork. So Damon Hi, how are you doing?
I'm alright, Fred.
Good man. Well, we've been having a chat before the chat. But let's go into I think, you know, it's kind of relatively unscripted. Just wanted to talk about what you're doing what I'm doing, hopefully make it relevant for some people listening.
Almost nothing.
I know. It's just having a chat. Really. You're you are one of the friends that are probably voice of course. And
not only like I've been on this before, yeah,
once or twice, once or twice. So anyway, what's happening in your world these days?
What's been going on? I have no idea when you're releasing this. But yesterday, the 28th of October, I released another book, my second book and got best seller in it yesterday. So that was good. Yay. For me. I did that with Allah. So we've worked together in SBI, capital, residential property consulting company. So I'm doing that. I'm still doing my own bits and bobs and EP investor, which I can't remember how I was doing last time we spoke, probably still doing that playing around with crypto every now and then just generally trying to keep out of trouble, but still just investing full time playing around with money.
And, and you've moved.
I have. So I move what did I do? I moved to New York, just before lockdown and COVID and then got trapped in your upper I knew absolutely nobody. So that was a bit rubbish. And so I've moved back down to Cambridge there. So I'm living back down in Cambridge and probably going to buy somewhere in the next year or so. I reckon. Speaking of moving, but you're too rigid.
I'm moving to Damien. phonation. Early? Yeah, actually, no, that
was six cents. Yeah.
I'm moving to sometime in the next year.
We're not moving in together. Everybody just putting?
Yeah, that's true. It's funny. Actually, I might be heading the direction you've just come from maybe. But it does depend. There's a few moving targets. Our airlines are not necessarily straightforward. Are they? There's like,
be boring if they weren't. It would be. But yeah, moving once prompted the move. Because how long have you been in Brazil?
So on and off? Obviously, seven, seven years? Should have been two or three. So it's been a lot longer than Yeah, certainly imagined. And what's prompted, it basically is, so the main reason we're in Brazil is because my wife is sensible got a job career. And you know, she was an HR professional basically. Or is, is and she's going to complete her current role. And we've just decided we'd like to be more focused, you know, full time in the UK. And she's going to switch to doing things more digitally. You know, being you know, delivering sort of HR consulting mentoring and training programs. This digitally forget to say it.
You're not doing the advertising for them.
Now, well, you know, I've got just to put it in context. I've got about 600 followers on Instagram, which is and she's got about 14,000 Probably. Yeah, well, she's so she's good at it and she's working at it. Yeah. So she just When, when, when, when she first started venturing to this world, I felt all you know, I could tell you a little bit about some of this stuff, not necessarily Instagram, because honestly, that's not very good. But I do have quite a large following in other areas. And I can tell you all about this and, you know, it's kind of true learning and stuff. And I felt like I was, you know, king for a day or whatever. But now, obviously,
it literally lasted the day didn't it before she was better than all the new.
She's definitely better than me. So that's really exciting to be fair, and she just launched her mentoring program, she sold out four times, something like that, you know, but it's still a little bit unproven as to how sustainable it's going to be long run, because she needs to do, you know, resale, and she needs to have like, more just like, what do you call it? downloadable programs?
Continuity stuff. Yeah,
exactly. That can be doesn't necessarily rely on personal delivery all the time. So we had a little bit of an experiment a while ago. So in that
way, you know, the places in Brazil keep them long term or
run out or not keep. We didn't actually have that many here. But basically, we'll always have a home in Brazil. So we'll still have that in Rio. So we'll come back and hopefully enjoy carnival and stuff like that see family? And then I think both are even free if we did sell one. And then I think our daughter's gonna live another one. So
I'll go work out in the end. Yeah. So
it was never a massive market for me, because I didn't understand. I didn't speak the language. And there's a few
and how long did you say you'd been there for? Seven, seven minutes. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's fun.
Yeah, it's, it's,
he was just stereotypical English about the whole thing. We're here.
No, yes or no. I mean, look at me. You can't tell because the background but I work in my own home. Speak to people in the UK in English, nearly all day. So there, I'm not exactly immersed. And when I did get immersed, you know, it's usually around food and drink. And so I can order anything here or was on the menu. But yeah, but not so good on reading title deeds. For in Portuguese, so yeah. So it was never a major market. But anyway, that's that. So that's cool.
And what spurred the decision to move back to the UK.
So, well, there's probably a number of things that come together at the same time, I think.
Tell me two of them. Two, okay. And tell me the third one first.
house in the mountains. Cool. Okay, so, which we could scare or people could snowboard out?
If they're cool.
Yeah, I remember when I tried to snowboard I did take out a block of five-year-old girl who did look at me like why did you do that? Stupid. Oh, man. That was the extent of my snowboarding skills. Maybe I should have had a good instructor though.
I think you should have saw at least American Association of Super Sports instructors qualified.
Do you know anyone like that? Of course you are close. You are actually I wanted to get back to that because you did say you were celebrating. And forgot. Did you actually say how many bottles of champagne were involved?
There was five or six. No one starts counting. After three clicks be honest. That's true.
I don't know if you're on your own. No, no,
I was with other people. Otherwise, I definitely wouldn't be here for this. That's true. So yeah, I feel a little bit delicate today.
So I'm basically segwaying into what you wrote in I think it was the introduction in the book that you just talked about. So first of all, what is the name of the book
building a legacy
be sure yes,
building up shit actually the day in front of me it's called Building A not for resale a Legacy A Practical Guide to UK property investing. I'm not entirely sure that not for resale but is in the normal title.
Yeah, I don't think not for resale sparked the title though. Okay,
then it's just called building a legacy. A Practical Guide to UK property investing.
Yeah. So the, the reason so there I mean, Amazon Best Seller or best seller and several bottles of champagne celebrating so well done. I believe that's your second best seller. Is that right? It is yeah. Okay. She's good. Are you If he called me now. Yeah, but maybe I'll have to release another book and
you always got a book about to be coming out that avenue.
Pretty much.
I'm going to update one of them. Have you done that recently?
Probably not going to do the update. Now
on that, like the tech one or something.
So the tech nine is in Korean language, if that's any use here.
Not much to me. Well, I did like squid game, so
maybe I wouldn't. So I had someone approached me said they want to translate it into Korean. So I said, Yeah, go for it. I think I think they've sold more copies in Korea than I've sold in English, actually. So that's cool. And that one I that was a project that was a prop tech book. And that was that was 2018 project. And I thought, funnily enough, I was into myself and another podcast, podcast, whatever you say, about the future of real estate. And they were read, they were talking about that book. And I had to reread it to remind myself what I said three years ago. Anyway, that was a project for a season. And the first one is called property investor Toolkit, which I couldn't refresh, but pretty much. The next, the latest one is called The Complete Guide to property finance.
And one of the making, when's that coming out?
There will be out either end of November, beginning of
December, who we best get five bottles of champagne and a button. Yeah,
I think it will get you on a zoom and, you know, celebrate again,
for your hammered. Yeah. Why not? I mean,
going back to you then. So in the book, he talks about one of your relevant qualifications, being a snowboard instructor? And of course, you know, I know you're being facetious about that. All those are? Not really, you have this long list of stuff that you do. But what I was intrigued about was the angle you come about from the book, actually. It's just,
if you don't want to say,
well, I don't know what you're gonna say. So go on, what is
the, you know, angle that you're coming out with the book? Because you said, yeah,
the overarching theme of it is you're trying to build a legacy. It's generational wealth, but doing it in a sustainable, and I guess, sustainable in lots of different definitions of the word, way. So it's sustainable from an energy performance EPC sorts of ratings, but also from who you rent into why you renting how you manage in the portfolio. strategic portfolio management is like the whole top to bottom of how you can invest in a way that isn't anything new is what people have been doing for hundreds of years. But sometimes people kind of lose sight of that. So it's how you can invest in a way that will keep your kids grandkids, great grandkids, reasonably well off or wealthy.
Yeah, and I think the other thing is, it's not how to put it, you come at it from a point of view that you should have a bit of money behind you to get going. Rather than a getting rich, quick type of
God yet definitely not one of those properties quite expensive, it turns out, so if you haven't got any money, probably don't bother buying the book.
So yeah, I think that's, that's positioned did quite well in the market. So got a few quid behind you. And, and, you know, you've got this sort of legacy view long term. In other words, and I think the sustainability thing is really interesting, as well. And as you say, you come at it from different perspectives. So different stakeholder interests, you want to be sustainable form. So
yeah, like, so we do different things with different types of clients, depending on what the, I guess biggest things are. But we work with quite a few of them who are interested in like key worker housing, and specifically targeting, whether it's NHS staff or delivery drivers wherever it might be, but people that are genuinely playing a good active role in an economy in the UK, that's where we tend to focus. But from a commercial perspective, as well, look at the likes of lockdown and COVID, all that good stuff. Key workers were the solid bet if they were your tenant type, because they weren't impacted by redundancies, pay codes, all that sorts of stuff. So although there's a philanthropic leaning to it, there's also economic and commercial reason for it as well. And the sorts of people that we're working with are, they're not desperately trying to chase every single penny that you can make from a returns point of view. They've got a decent chunk of cash. And so they're now looking at well, it's more wealth preservation, but I've made a shitload of money doing something. So now I want to see it grow. Obviously above inflation rates, but it doesn't have to be absolutely the hardest this money could work ever. So they're not really trying to sweat their assets that much. They're trying to actually give a decent level of accommodation to people who are key workers, stuff like that. So just depends on the investor type and how, what buttons they want ticking really
going on and off mute, because I've got someone blowing a gale blowing the leaves outside. So I don't know if it comes over to you. But as a back again, he's back again. So hopefully, it's not too disturbing. So that's interesting angle. What you also talk about there. Interesting. You said you're working with people. And of course, that's not with the book specifically. But this was presumably led to writing the book. Just notes about you know, who you're working with, and in what way and I think you've got you working with Anna right? You're basically in some
way. Yeah. So Anna Harper, who she'd been on your podcast at some point? Thanks.
Yeah, she was on the women in property series that I did. There we go.
Well, she's still a woman stolen property. So that doesn't change. So yeah, me and her working together. And yet, we work with high net worths. And they're all sorts of those bike partners in law firms, there's some equity managers who run pretty big funds. There's a whole raft of people at different scale, but they tend to generally have basketballs of a million pound plus to be investing in property in some way, shape, or form. And to be fair, not all of them want to use leverage, some of them want to use a small amount of leverage other people looking to still leverage up to the hilt a little bit depends on what their goals are, and all that good stuff. But we effectively are an outsourced family office, residential department for these people. So they set up their own company, and we advise on, okay, this is what you should do, this is how you should set it up. This is the things you can buy, these are the options you've got. So we just as I say, We're outsourced helpers for them, and let them achieve their goals, whatever their goals might be. And as ever, because it's me, if anybody turns up with unrealistic goals, they get told off and told, Don't be stupid, you never going to make that much money. You
can't imagine you saying that to anyone. Damien part mean,
I'll demo it for you if you want.
This is one of the reasons anyone who follows Damien on any sort of social media, you know, what you're getting? You know, it's very straightforward. And talking about the book, actually, I remember seeing an email that came out, and it was basically taken a lever, you know, you know, very straightforward, straight talking so, but realistic,
can't be asked, doing all like the fake sales stuff, and trying to convince people to buy things that might not be right for them. So kinda, as you say, comes across in pretty much everything I do have been, I can't, I don't really need to be working with people. So if I do something, it's going to be good. And it's going to be genuinely helpful for someone, but only for the right sort of person. So there's no point me trying to sell myself to someone who's going to read it. And like, where they did use a swear word at once or twice, like, Yeah, I'm absolutely gonna do that. So if you don't like it, fuck off. So at least they know what they're getting. But the front end? Yeah.
Well, it works for you as well, doesn't it? It's about you know, people talk about being genuine. And the word is authentic, isn't it? You are you.
So nobody else wants to be mixer for you.
Yeah, and you know, you but equally, I think you're, you're successful as you. That's the point. So thank you. Are you doing right? And then, you know, I think we're drift into some of the ways in which you're doing all right, because, you know, you talked about you still got the heat the investor, for example, and you kind of you just alluded to the fact you're dabbling in crypto and stuff like that. But from what I understand, that's going pretty well for you as well.
Yeah, I mean, it's quite hard to not be doing pretty well in crypto at the moment. But yeah, that's been good. All right, been helping some people get started with it. And it kind of all came about, because it's a bit of a dodgy asset class, not many people touch it. Not many people from an advisory point of view can talk about it. And so having been a financial advisor, I know that restraint that they have, and by the constraints they have, rather, of what they can and can't talk about in the way in which they can talk about it. So I figured it kind of makes sense to have someone who knows what should be said. And then educating people on what they need to know about it. Rather than I, you know, I'm going to horse in the race. I don't care if you invest in crypto or not, but I can tell you the pros and cons of it, and then you decide for yourself. That kind of works. And yeah, as you say, crypto at the moment is doing very well for everybody. So there's a whole bunch of different ways of getting involved in it. And I'm just sticking my fingers in a whole bunch of pies and see what happens with all of them.
Did you do a course.
I attended gosh, oh, I made my own So sorry, was that like a really good way of me suddenly plugging my course instead of fucking up and saying, oh, no, I'm bologna courses? Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah, I did a course on that. Go and do it.
Is it still available?
It is, I put the price up when I eventually Pull my finger out and add some more videos to it. So people should hurry up and go under?
And where would they go? to hurry up and go?
The E P investor.com. Forward slash something. It'll be around there somewhere.
So find Damian bb investor.com Before we find out about the crypto course. But it's not just crypto, is it? Because you cover a lot of different asset classes in your sort of general investing in your knowledge sharing and obviously your personal, you know, investing journey as well. Yeah,
I mean, I've kind of done them all now. So after, I think it might have been for the book, where to write how long we've been doing stuff. It's been over 20 years since I've been investing. Doesn't sound I mean, I know you're old as balls. But I don't feel like I've been around long enough to be doing anything for 20 years yet.
Yeah, I?
How old? Do you still think you are in your head? And ask a question.
I in my head, I realistically 32 for a dish.
Yeah, I feel like having kids instantly ages you by a decade. But anyways, by meant more from just like a mental perspective.
You know, obviously, my kids. How long did you say you've been investing
21 as a 21 years now?
Yeah, my kids are older than how long you've been investing. So you know, even the youngest one is 22. So you know that it does change your perspective, it changes your outlook considerably. And you kind of have to grow up a little bit. So when you asked me about in my head, I was thinking my which head because, you know, when I've got my dad head on, you know, for some all grown up and stuff. But when I haven't got my dad head on by 30, something or whatever, you know. So I still feel I got a lot of energy and a lot to give. I think someone the other day said to me something along the lines of because we're buying some businesses, which we can maybe have a chat about at some point. And there was one of the potential candidates to be the MD in one of the businesses where we're acquiring. And he's 55. And an investor, who we're working with said, Well, he's 55, you know, I'm not done right off the old dodge just yet. He's feeling
defensive of old folk.
Yeah, I'm 55. You know, so obviously,
I'm thinking, look a day over 54 months.
Oh, yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah, so I think age is a state of mind. So I'm glad you asked me how old I think I am in my head. For sure.
Sounds a good question. I came up with that. Yeah. What else do you want to talk about?
Well, we have just taken me down the angle of we didn't deliberately. But you know what, what we've both been up to so you've been doing a bit of crypto meddling and financial stuff. You've written a book, you've got this sort of crazy family office type of fund? Who is it? By the way, you should say who it is? I don't think you said it.
SBI, capital
SBI capital. And funnily enough, at the start of this year, I set a few goals. And by the way, I've got a long term goal about opening a fund so we can maybe drift into that. But the thing, the first were the two main goals for this year were to buy businesses. That was one of the other one was to acquire blocks and portfolios. Cool. So I'll be migrating my interests a little bit. And funnily enough, that's going to be maybe what the future direction of the podcast might look like. When when I take off to come back from a bit of a break.
So going out,
second, sorry, when is this episode going out? It'll be going out in early November.
Okay. So it's not like this is the start of the thing that will be in six months time. No. Okay. Cool.
Yeah. So this is the it'll be something that happens in between, don't worry. So I'm taking a break. But you know, my Podcast Producer, we both know, she is said I need to record a few words here and there, but and she's going to take care of the rest. So
I mean, you should definitely take that literally and just record random words and send them to her like they go. You said you could make a podcast out of that good luck.
sort of thing you do. Yeah, like what you said No, don't say, again, what you said at the start. So otherwise, we'll have to do another edit. Anyway, so buy businesses has gone better than buying blocks for the year, but if I just say we had a goal of, we set a goal of 1x, at the beginning of the year, without going to the numbers, but 1x If and all being well, that goes according to plan, which might not, then it could land at 8x was set at the beginning of the year. So that's been kind of fun.
Good work. And there's probably been more the business side of it, rather than the block side of things.
Yeah, we had, on the block side of things, we had some near misses in terms of acquisitions. You know, like a couple of vendors pulled out, for example, or we, you know, we just got out late, a couple of those sort of things happen. So we didn't manage to get anything we actually got anyway. But that's, that is something that we're still keen to do, and move more away from developing into, you know, still going at scale, because a block or portfolio by definition is multiple units, but just eliminate that development risk. So,
proper painting, the answer is,
yes, for me anyway. And I don't think it is for everyone. Possible is really short
is for everyone. Just nobody likes to talk about it.
Yeah, it's actually interesting, because there's a few people who I've been speaking to off the record, who've been developers at reasonable scale, who admitted, it's been hard. They've suffered. And, you know, maybe all that's presented isn't quite the reality, I
think that would be a polite way of saying it.
So, you know, it hasn't always gone swimmingly well, for me, as development. And so I think the actual there's plenty of risk and stuff like that, and that's fine. But unless you're heavily dependent on the outcome, but the I think thing for me is just dealing with the construction train the building train, that's been challenging. So
so the businesses you buy, not in property sector them.
So the businesses we're buying, so enough, I think if we if we conclude everything that's in the in flight at the moment, and once we've already done five or six are in the property sector, but they're more agency, rather than building. So
sectors, the sixth one completely different.
So it hasn't completed. So I've got to be a bit vague.
Until we when we hang up. Yeah,
well hang up, I'll tell you that. Basically. We bought that one, because it's a really well run business. It's profitable. And we don't actually have to manage it on a day to day basis. Caught so. But yeah, I'm trying to talk to business owners. And so it isn't specifically property. But obviously, we know more about property.
Yeah, it's easy to carry out the due diligence on stuff you understand and know,
when is the due diligence. And obviously, if we need to be more operationally involved, we can do that, you know, we've found background, whereas the sixth one I've just told you about is or didn't really tell you about when, you know, we're gonna put people in who know more than us about operating that business. Cool. Hopefully, we're gonna do diligence, right. And you'll have a brand new fish and chip shop.
I laugh I got that right.
Look like every food. Yeah, no, there's there's no food involved. So that's, yeah, it's in the sort of, it's a niche in the transport sector.
Cool.
Now, are you thinking of buying a caravan or something?
I don't know. For some reason I was thinking nuclear waste disposal.
Okay, fair enough.
But for some reasons, that was the first thing that went through my mind.
I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
You're not supposed to at least that's a good job. You're not getting into that one. Maybe you turn them with barge calls.
And what's interesting, so, you know, maybe we know the developments, or sorry, well, divineness blocks or portfolio side hasn't, you know, being wonderful about the business acquisitions possibly has. But what I was thinking is, so why am I doing it? We're doing it because it's part of legacy again. So going back to what you're saying. So you say properties and asset classes. which can go be handed down through the generations. A business can also be an asset class or a form of asset, which has a value and can be handed down through the generations. And obviously, it could be more tradable depending on how whether it's a private business or listed business. And from my point of view, what I'm it's all building towards my foundation,
built this foundation. You mentioned it before, but it kept me on tenterhooks to not tell me what to watch about it. So Kaufman's
tells me it's been, I've been trying to keep it relatively quiet. And then, ironically, I was sort of forced to talk about it more openly with one of the businesses with the staff of one of the businesses that we acquired. Basically, my business partner said, Do you want to elaborate Richard? No, not really. I don't. Yeah, so I kind of did. And so and it went down quite well. So a blog where she talked about it?
Well, you should start talking about it and start talking about it. Thank you. So it's got the working title of help Foundation. And when we put that in the end, there's probably a lot of shit name. Yeah. And there's, there's one called anyway, I think, well, if you're listening, your foundation is a shit name Foundation.
And I only came up with that one, because it had the word help spelt out the areas I was interested in.
But housing, employment, low energy, lightbulbs, and property.
Kinda but not quite. So. Housing, entrepreneurship, learning and poverty. And I know some of those plays on words. So I can make it fit help. But yeah, you do like an acronym? I do. But it's going to become a little bit more complicated, it seems because I want my kids to be involved. Talking about kids. And I mentioned, so I mentioned this to my youngest daughter, and she said, What about the environment?
You have an extra eon nurse.
So we could be helping you or Hey, you, whatever. So? And then. And then she said, What about animals? And then my, one of my other daughters is into art and culture. So it's going to be a crazy acronym by the time we finished. Okay. But the long story short is, and that read that iOS video, that actually really motivated me even more, because I think the idea is it will do good things after I've departed this earth, which might be before you do based on
status. So given the age difference, no offense.
Yeah, I have something. But at least the kids could, you know, maybe I don't know if they want to, but you know, I'd like the really great if they could. So one way to encourage them to be more involved is to obviously support interested they're interested in. So now. Anyway, that's it. And so that's why I do act like a 30 odd year old, even mid 50s. Because I'm trying to build this foundation. And what I do now is towards that foundation, really?
So what is it that you're doing towards the foundation in the present day? Because it were you acquiring assets on its behalf? So you can generate an income that you can use the income to help different things? Or are you just seeking donations for stuff? Or what's the process, there's going to be a charity is going to be set up as a registered charity, or how's it gonna work? They don't even bother thinking about all that stuff yet? Or is it still just,
you know, some of it's still I haven't got that far with, I mean, it will be either a charity or not for profits, I just need to look at the legal structure having formed it yet. The I do probably need to be planning it a little bit more than I am because, you know, I'm acquiring assets, but they're not going into the thing. So when I'm buying these assets, whether it's a business or whether it's property through other legal vehicles right now, but they will effectively at some point, above a certain figure will be transferred into whatever the foundation actually is. So at the moment, I'm just acquiring a boatload of stuff. And, you know, but it's not, you know, as I say, above this threshold figure, which is not like crazy stuff is all gonna go in the foundation. Cool. I don't want my kids to be how to put it ruined. Yeah. But by having loads of money handed down to them, so that, you know, you know how it goes. But there'll be provided for, but hopefully not spoke too much. The rest will go into the foundation. Cool. Sounds good. But what about you because you know, you've got an interest, not necessarily in the same things, but I know you've got an interest in areas of something beyond yourself. Yeah,
so I'm still just obsessed with it. So, I pretty much every year will allocate a decent chunk of my own money. And then any company profits and stuff like that into a bunch of different tree charities. All I want my friends works for the UN in the Conservation Department. And she tells all about mangroves. They're one of the more efficient carbon sequestering things, which I'm not gonna lie, I have to go and Google what that meant. But so look at stuff like that, I quite like the environmental side of things and helping them that from a work perspective, SPI capital tends to do exclusively focuses on key workers and key worker housing and stuff like that. So there's a little bit of philanthropy going on, throughout. One of the things I kind of want to do that still very early days, and it's very much just a thought at this point that I've not really putting too much effort into is effectively setting up like an endowment fund management for smaller charities. So a bit like you've just said, with the foundation, it's smaller charities, not the big ones, because they can afford to do it all themselves, but smaller ones be like, Look, you're raising money every year, and then going and spending on whatever it is that you want to do gooders are doing. So if you at least invest some of that, and start generating an income stream for yourself, at some point, you either reach the stage where you don't have to stick your hand out on raise money anymore, but you become self funding. And that gives you a lot more options as a charity, or you just double the amount of money you've got to spend each year because you continue doing your charitable donation drives all that good stuff, but you've got assets behind you. So a bit like the big institutions, the universities, having downwind funds, helping smaller charities get access to that sort of stuff. But as probably nicely segues into the whole fun side of things, just a bit of a nightmare, isn't it?
Yeah, but before we go to the fun bit, because I do want to, but I think what you just said is really interesting, because
like I said it
just nothing changes. So about the endowment type of policy. And if you think about foundations, charities, you know, things, you know, things are linked to university, stuff like that. They, if you're constantly collecting money and paying it out, you're always paying out everything that you collect in, then, you know, you have to keep spinning, though you need keep pedaling. But if you can convert it into assets, income generating in particular, then, you know, arguably, you can do the job. Well, so once and then you know, it's the gift that keeps giving.
I think it's Harvard, just released the numbers for their fund. And I think it was something like, you know, within the hundreds of billions that they've got under management may even have gone over a trillion that might have been why the article came out. But it basically said, because they take money from this fund that they've got the actual running costs of the university that is funded by student tuition is like 16%. So obviously, they don't need the students to be there, they're making so much money from their investments, they can pretty much fun the whole thing through investment returns. Now, obviously, Harvard has been around for quite some time. But I think that to your point about the whole legacy thing, when you're looking at an investment of that sort of scale and timeframe, you do start thinking in terms of I remember speaking someone in Cambridge, one of their investment advisor thing, they think in terms of centuries. So it's like, will it be a decent payback in the next 6070 years? Because we will keep this for the next four or 500 years? Because some of them may go like 900 years now, think 1100. So that was one of the earliest colleges can't remember, but stupid old. So they're the sorts of timeframes that they think in from investment and just thinking like that changes your perspective on investments in a massive
way, I think. Totally. Totally. And that's, you know, that's how my foundation that's that's the vision for my foundation, and so, maybe not thinking four or 500 years, but maybe it should, yeah, why not? Yeah, well, you've just helped me probably reframe my thinking, but I was thinking of a couple of generations.
500 quid Thank you. Consulting.
Nothing changes. Cheap for you.
It is really shit. There's a charity though.
And just before we go to the fun thing, I mean, talking about setting up a foundation or a charity, I mean, how much the cost?
Anything pound 50.
cost more than 18 pounds? Probably. Yeah,
I don't know. To be fair, one of my mates did it over in America. I can put you in touch if you want. I suspect it's quite different over there, though. But she set it up. And it wasn't mega money. But yeah, it's not that cheap to do, but it's quite a it's a small scale on that. She said initially, I don't know how much it's scaled up now. But yeah, it's doable by individuals. Like still?
Yeah, I guess it depends on the legal structure, right? If it's trust, or it's a foundation or it's a charity, there'll be different implications to that. And if you're setting up an endowment fund, or something similar, then the sky keeps trying to put into my, into my computer. I don't know how to stop that. But
feeling left out. Nobody likes feeling left out.
Now. I should sort out my tech at some point.
You wrote a book on tech? Yeah.
Yeah. Well, now as I said, I was a property guy who was interested in technology rather than being anything to do with any good with technology, massively caveat it. That was in fact, when I was interviewed there without the podcast that I was just talking about. So don't ask me anything to do with actual technology, where I'm talking about the uses and the benefits rather than how to do stuff.
Did you ask them to like, fax you the script beforehand?
No. But they may have offered that they might fund right. So it's easy to set up a fund, isn't it?
I mean, yeah. Can you do it? I mean, are
you in prison? Yeah, I'm talking to. I'm talking to some guys in Switzerland. So maybe if I carry on at that rate, I was in prison, who knows? But no, they I'm talking to some people who do the compliance side of fund management. And when I saw their like, kind of org chart, about all of the different things that they do in the roles and stuff like that, I was like, I'm really glad I'm not doing that.
Yeah, and it very much depends on the jurisdiction, you set yourself up in lots of people go to Luxembourg setup. I think that's one of the easier ones to do. But depends on where you are, where you want your customers to be based to invest with you what type of customer you going for how you're planning on marketing to those customers, that dictates the people that you need, on your note staff effectively for the compliance stuff, I know, you can outsource an awful lot of it. But there was some changes, not this year, beginning last year, that kind of closed off some of the loopholes of just get, we'll just outsource all of the back office stuff. So compliance got a little bit more complicated in 2020, which is a bit of a pain. But it kind of, it seems like it's a hassle. But when I suppose when you think about it logically like, No, this is quite good, because aI don't want just a bunch of random deck set number fun taking money off people and then run away with it. So I want it to be seven people who have to work there. And they've all got these qualifications. And this is the experience, they've gotten all that sort of stuff. So it kind of is reassuring to an extent. But then having said that, you look at some of the actual funds that are out there. And they're run by idiots. But that's by the by.
And, of course, I mean, if you were looking to do one on this endowment basis, but you know, what, what are the options that you'll be looking at?
I suppose I haven't. To be fair, I haven't looked into it. For this particular thing, I haven't looked into that much. So it's very much. That would be a good because I don't intend to have any kids. That would be a good legacy thing. For me, I think, if you could set up something that invested on behalf of charities, and whether it was a bit like SPI with, it's not a fund. It's an outsourced fund management thing, a fund, they tend to be referred to as alternative investment management. If it's something like that, where you just say, Look, you are the charity, you've raised your own money, you keep it, but we're now going to help you with the investment side of things, you just become effectively an investment advisor, that might be the route to go because then they keep complete control over it. Rather than go in the collective investment side of things where you do need all the regulations, to be able to say, Yeah, charity, just chuck money into the pot. And we'll go and invest it on a global scale across all of them, and give you returns dividends wherever it might be on the back of that. Yeah. There's options are not really figured out which one's the best one or at what point I'm going to do it because although I've got a decent number of the qualification for financial advisory stuff, it's not really that relevant for the investment advisory world.
You know, there's different set of rules and compliance. I mean, we've been quoted, you know, if we wanted to get on the fund route, we've been quoted quite a lot of money just to set up. I mean, six figures. So
yeah, we were getting sort of told anywhere when we're looking at property because it wasn't that regulated. But the numbers were like, Yeah, it'll be five grand a month, up to it'll be 25 grand a month. And you don't get to make any of your own decisions because you have to outsource effectively to an investment committee. So all you can say is at the front end, this is what our criteria is going to be. You then have to present deals to them. that meet that criteria? Because they're the ones that say yes or no to the deal. Even though you're the fund manager that doing all the work, you have to outsource the yes or no to somebody else. Yeah. So, so just more 14 for all that.
Yeah. And so skew thoughts there? I'm not sure it sounds like you've you're thinking about it. And I'm obviously thinking about it, I wasn't necessary thinking about it for my own foundation purposes. I was thinking about it insofar as to just leverage a boatload of money, and then that would ultimately from my side of it for into my foundation. So they're kind of linked, but not directly. You know, and, you know, for example, on the blocks and portfolio stuff I talked about, we've been offered blocks of 16 million, for example. And, you know, you, even if you're leveraging any kind of need five to 7 million to take a deal like that down, and I didn't have the spare five to 7 million, so I couldn't take it down. So
bad times.
Bad times. So you know, so I was thinking about it from that point of view. Who knows? It's it was more of a vision than an absolute goal. So we'll see how that evolves.
Yeah, I think mine's one of those. It's not really realistically in the next five year plan. But it's something that's just chugging along in the background. So if it's on my radar, hopefully I can pick up on things as the as and when that might be relevant for it, but it's probably late 40s job for me, I think,
are just just just a few weeks away, and I
am not even 40 Yet still.
I do remember a birthday thing. If I remember your birth month, because close enough. Yeah, well, the reason is apparently not apparently. But I remember you said you celebrate the whole month.
Yes, I do. As much as it might be the quarter given this my 40.
Yeah, a few glasses of champagne might be hard occasionally. With some fruit ciders and stuff.
A budget means they're going to be cheaper as well. So.
Exactly, exactly. So Everyone's a winner. Exactly. But the thing I thought we were going to chat about because this is part of my just segwayed on the podcast about changing direction. And I know you've got some podcast chatter that you wanted to talk about. Yeah, so I
obviously had the the money shot podcast. And it was just me doing the education piece stuff for two seasons, which was alright. But my best mate in Cambridge was like, Oh, I've always wanted to be on a podcast, or like, alright, just come online, I've got one. And so me and him just started talking very drunkenly about business stuff. And so I mean, Raj has got an MBA from Cambridge. So he knows his stuff about business. But it was just the two of us drunkenly shouting at each other. And so we've done that for I think we've got 42 episodes of it now. Just me and him. To be fair, what we've been doing is, what is it, looking what's happened in the news, deconstructing the strategy behind it, and then seeing how you can apply it to a smaller business that was kind of the model. And we did that for like, 4050 episodes or something. But now that we're through the courting period, we've decided we're going to set up our own podcast. And so we're doing that at the moment. We haven't actually released any episode yet. But it's going to be called the authority indicator. Because we're taking the piss. Right. So yeah, we're gonna do that. And we're gonna kind of do similar things like what's been going on the news, and how does the business will impact on everybody else. But we're also going to do one of those stupid that. And this is the reason why we're doing the podcast, we have zero listeners. So at the moment, it's just so Roger, weirdly, and probably narcissistically listens to our own episodes back when he goes to sleep at night, and then giggles away to himself and how funny we are. So that's the level of audience so far, I think there's like three people we know that listen to it. So it's not exactly Joe Rogan. But the plan is to kind of document the whole journey of Ghana, we've got, somehow we sort of start, we have one listener, could you email us in or, you know, give us a ring, you could be on the podcast if you want, because it's basically me and Roger talking to whoever you are. And so we're gonna kind of do that whole. Let's keep it very open and talk to people about, you know, what, forget what do you want us to talk about next? If you are a business owner, have you got any issues going on? Send us your question. And we'll kind of do that way. So that could be entertaining.
Cool. When's it gonna be launched? Or is it launched?
It's not launched yet. We were supposed to record the first episode on Wednesday. But we forgot because we drank too much. Probably next Wednesday, we'll record the first episode. And then it'll probably get released at some point after that, but we're gonna try and be a bit more consistent than I certainly have been with the money shot stuff. Good luck with that.
Yeah. All right. Let me just fact check something, then you say last night involve copious amounts of champagne? Yes. And that was Thursday. It was Thursday. Just checking, right? We don't need to go any further than that.
Let's not do a check. Now.
42, drunken episodes weren't asked over what timescale? I think there's a consistent theme building it
was released during COVID.
Yeah, but I tell you what, I, I didn't realize you had that sort of methodology of lying, sight, you know, finding a story, deconstructing it and then applying it to business. So
we are not saying nothing has changed. I'm still God awful itself marketing. So but the actual, some of the episodes that we've done, are actually quite good. I generally tend to listen to them, make sure just before they get released and make sure we don't say anything too stupid. There's a lot of stupid stuff that is said. So it's it's not much of a filtering process for listening back to something like x. That's quite a good point. That is a thing people should probably apply in their own business. So if anyone wants to listen to that go nuts.
And that's currently on the money shot podcast. Is it? Yeah.
So it's just third season, I think.
And then to get involved in the authority indicator. So right, yeah. Yeah. Well, if Did you say someone can actually get on the podcast? Did you say that?
Or if somebody wants to
know how, how would they do that? Have no idea. Okay, that's you, like you said about self marketing? Yeah. Haven't got contact? Damian?
Basically, yeah, get in touch. Now, I think we'll obviously at some point, we'll release it on all those places, you released podcasts? We'll probably have a website at some point. I imagine. Maybe, I don't know. You're gonna be able to track me down. It's not like I'm hiding. So if you ever listen to the podcast and think that's fun, I want to get on it just sent me an email.
Just as a bit of a by the way, your money shot audiobook is hilarious.
I was at the one that I just get bored of my own book and just go completely off tangent. Yeah, you're
literally just this isn't in the book. But I kind of felt like say anyway, or something along those lines. Yeah. And of course, you've got I know that you've got a few kind of funny anecdotes and stuff like that in the book anyway. Here you are actually relaying them in your own voices. It was pretty funny.
She can help me with that audio editing as well. So she had a lot of winching about I did a lot of the recording in Thailand. And you can just hear like bullfrogs in the background, and some of them. She's like, I've done as good a job as I can editing this one, but it still sounds like you're in the middle of a jungle recording something. So good luck.
That's not a bad thing.
I mean, I was okay with it.
Yeah. So you're doing an audio version of your current book on
Governor Wellborn.
I mean, it's the book.
Yeah. It's a proper grown up book rather than my first book, which was useful, but wrapped in Damien.
And I'm thinking I'm going to do the thing and we'll do the audio book version of my property finance book. Yeah, I think I am. But other if you want. What am I how she kept in Pugwash jokes a
logical Postman Pat after you've retired.
Gone.
One of the reviews I got was like a two star review is I wouldn't review the higher but that postman pack joke was awful. Like maybe that was the highlight. Shut up.
Yeah. So yeah, the only thing with the property finance book, it turned into a bit of a beast isn't 80,000 words.
We just got time to read that. Is it good?
Yes. Brilliant. Okay, cool. Yeah,
probably make time to read it.
Yeah, it's, I've read it about three times or four times. I've read it a lot. Every time it gets proof read and stuff, I have to go back and reread it but it's kind of presented as more like a reference kind of book. So you could dip in and out of it. And so you can read the whole lot end to end, but it's in different sections and there's different cap, you know, chapters within each section,
you know, pick what's relevant for you and then read up on that but
yeah, so for example, you know, in the more alternative financing, it just talks about bonds and shares as an asset To raise money for developers or something like that, unless you're a developer, you might, you know, may not actually be interested in that. So you could skip that chapter. But you might focus on the vital at bridging. And, you know, that's those sort of chapters, you know, especially if you're starting out.
Who's the target audience for it?
Anyone involved in property? Because it is very broad? Probably, if you need some kind of financing and your property, I suppose. That's a good start. Yeah, but that'll probably be most people. And he got, like I say, got a bit out of control, because I just kept adding to it and attending to this beast. But you know, probably people read it. Go, you missed one. Sure, they will. But there'll be addition to, well, there's already over 50 different individual types of property finance in books. So
wasn't the face way back? When was the first reason we got talking to each other? Yeah. But it's funny how things go full circle after 10 years?
And I'll tell you why we don't you said, I think I've been on this podcast before. Do you remember we did want to on our tendency, or creative types of financing, remember? Vaguely when one of us or both of us are in America? I think maybe both of us are an American.
We didn't record a podcast when we were in Florida buying stuff. Yeah. You want the little zoom microphone thing? We use that on the table? Yeah.
That was I think we covered 10 alternative way or creative ways to do for anybody remember, you started with adverse possession? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's in the book.
So why won't 20% Commission?
Well, you know, you know where to find me. Actually, now, fair enough. So yeah, that's, that's the book anyway. But the and I was going so might do an audio version, but as an owner, I mean, that's, that's quite a long audio book, isn't it? It's also
a pretty boring topic. Why would you ever, as you say, it's a reference thing, like, oh, shit, I've got a problem, or I want to finance a place like this. I'll go read that bit that I need to do rather than I'll listen to someone breed presumably, about numbers. I don't know. I'm sure that listening to books anyway, cuz I get distracted. And then don't pay attention. By feel like anything. I've read a few books more or like the investing side of things. Soon as they start talking numbers and graphs and stuff like that. This is completely meaningless to me now. So I don't know what the hell you've just said to me.
No, you're right, I'll table you know, or figure X says this. And here's an eye chart. 33%. And
I'm not sure if it lends itself to the audio work for that sort of thing.
Good. So that's that decision made?
The welcome.
I think what I might then do, I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna do it. But yeah, so. But then the podcast that probably voice podcast is gonna rename it.
I don't know, because we're gonna start talking about property so much. Well, you know,
I'm kind of still the property voice. But yeah, maybe eventually, I'll just call it the voice. Is that been
done? Like, that's probably been done.
Okay. Maybe something else? But yeah, so it's going to be, I think, go more to because it's been more education in various forms, and it's going to be more reality. Generally. So I think that's the direction I'd like to take it. But my reality these days is quite broad, general business as well as property investments, funds, foundations. And there's quite a lot of different elements to it. So I'm going to think
perfectly if you ask your listeners to send in suggestions. There we go. I think you just did. That was my intention.
Well, you know, the only thing with listeners sending in suggestions is you know, what,
do you hate your listeners? Why are they all? Yeah.
Don't hate my listeners. And they're not all dickheads No. No, apart from the guy who really spoke to me, basically, told me everything I've ever said over the seven years I've been doing the podcast, you know, over a lunch one day I felt quite, you know, stalled. Strange, Stuart. Yeah, that's stoked. That was a bit weird. For the most absolute brilliant. Let me know. Anyway, that's our thing. We're rambling now. So is there anything else you wanted to chat about or we haven't spoken about?
Yeah, your ability to control Skype on your computer?
System. Somebody's very persistent and I think I know why.
The gleif lower pay and he wants to bring you on Skype.
Oh, actually, no, I thought I had another meeting to go to and I've just checked. There isn't that but that that has been known that I've missed a meeting slot because I got engrossed in something else.
I am engrossing, if nothing else.
So that no, I think I should draw a line. And I'd say there's no nothing else unless you want to add something. But somehow or other if you're interested in the authority indicator, or all the other stuff that you mentioned earlier, find him.
Yeah, I feel like that's the first test if you can't be asked, trying to find me, then. You know if I can get it anyway.
And anyway, thanks for joining me in the handful of people who are going to do this sort of bridge between the old podcast and the podcast.
I'm sure on the best of all of them.
Without that was definitely the best one so far.
Wow. Thank you. Thank you.
Have a good day. I'll catch you soon. In about oh, I need to finish the actual recording. Sorry. No, don't go. Oh, thanks very much for listening to podcasts. I know what I'm gonna say. The show notes on the website, thepropertyvoice.net contact me podcast at Bob's voice like man. I don't know what else to say. But Ciao, ciao. Thanks a lot. Bye.
Bye. Thank you for listening today. Now head over to thepropertyvoice.net . For more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the property voice podcast and if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate us on iTunes.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai