I am joined by some wonderful panelists again this week as we delve into the topic of people a bit deeper.
Kelly Statham, Cara Cunniff, Sue Whittle and Nana Piesie are my co-panelists this week. Make sure you check out their contact details and connect with them won’t you?
We cover understanding ourselves and others, managing and dealing with people and dealing with difficult situations. This week we get to explore the practical experience blended with some of the coaching insights of our panelist for a wide-ranging conversation.
How to better understand and manage ourselves but also how to better understand others too...in this post-Covid world.
I enjoyed this conversation and I hope you will too!
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Transcription of the show
I am joined by some wonderful panelists again this week as we delve into the topic of people a bit deeper.
Kelly Statham, Cara Cunniff, Sue Whittle and Nana Piesie are my co-panelists this week. Make sure you check out their contact details and connect with them won’t you?
We cover understanding ourselves and others, managing and dealing with people and dealing with difficult situations. This week we get to explore the practical experience blended with some of the coaching insights of our panelist for a wide-ranging conversation.
How to better understand and manage ourselves but also how to better understand others too...in this post-Covid world.
I enjoyed this conversation and I hope you will too!
Property Chatter
Welcome to the property voice podcast helping you to navigate safely through the world of property investing, get the lowdown and updates, insights and outcomes on all matters property with a splash of entertainment along the way, the property voice or voice to trust among the crowd. Now, let's get started with your host, Richard Brown.
Hi, everybody, and welcome to another episode on the property voice podcast. It's another week in the property core skills series. We're talking about managing and understanding people this week. And it's part two, I suppose. Because last week, it was just me with content, we're just talking about some of my own thoughts on the topic. And this week, I'm delighted to have a panel with me and with some real experience around the table so to speak, who can talk about managing understanding people from their, you know, professional and, and working careers if you like. So welcome Kelly, Kyra Sue, and Nana. And I just probably want to start by going around the table perhaps in that sequence. I'm not very good at getting the sequence. So we'll do keynote, Kelly, Kara, Sue, and Nana. And if you just give us a one-minute overview of who you are just so the listeners have got a picture in their mind's eye as to where you're coming from when we get into the conversation proper. So Kelly, welcome over to you.
Thank you, Richard. I'm Kelly stayed them. And my previous experiences a police officer for 12 years with Nottingham Shipley's. I left the police force six years ago 2013 and started building a property business, which we currently run and manage properties where an estate agent called us property in Mansfield, but we do all the state agents' aspects of work in Nottinghamshire have been since 2013. And we predominantly manage the most challenging of the mall, which is HMOs. So I've got a husband Kevin and his family-run business. Between us, we've got four children. So very busy, very hectic, obviously deal with lots and lots of people in the process.
Thanks, Kelly. And listeners will be familiar with you because of previous participation. So I mentioned the double award-winning stuff again, you know, that that would just be overkill, wouldn't it? So yeah, we won't we won't do that. But um, maybe you could talk about managing children as well. You know, because I think there's probably a few clues they can give them to me. I'm sure you probably got a lot of experience there. So thanks for coming. Welcome. Thank you. So Cara next up to our thanks, Richard. So Hello, everyone. My name is Kara Conniff and I am the founder of a company called thrive in midlife. But my history in property comes way before that. So 20 years ago, when I actually married into the military, my husband is a serving officer. And that was really when I realized I need to start my journey in property. So I am actually a veteran reservist army officer, myself, endurance athlete, and a coach. And I really believe in the, I guess the ethos, and it's never too late to thrive. And that is something I stand behind in my business that it's never too late to thrive. And that's what I believe people have that opportunity to thrive. So it's great to be here, Richard. Thank you.
Thanks, Kara. And thanks. Also, we had a little preamble before we started recording properly. And the naughty Sue there asked me to introduce everybody. So I missed a few things in the introduction that you just shared as well. So thanks for the reminders is there as well there. And yeah, brilliant. Thanks. I'm looking forward to the thrive conversation. Thanks, Kara. Come on then. So I couldn't do you mind me calling you the naughty Sue there?
No, I don't mind at all. So very quickly, in a nutshell, 20 years working at the leadership level in British universities and helping with academics get their inventions to market which was a fascinating world. 10 years experience in property investment. Five years as a coach and my specialisms are money, mindset, and values. I'm also an NLP master practitioner, but a kind of that's not my main focus. Massive pivot we've talked about pivots in the last year, we've both given up our jobs and I'm now running my village cafe. So I know all about coffee beans, cakes, brownies, and pasties. You know where is a very different world to me. And I would just say I'm just literally completely fascinated by people like all people everywhere, I don't care who they are, where they come from what they've done, I'm just fascinated by people and my life's mission is to maybe change a little bit, change the lives of some of the people I've come into contact with, however, that might be going ashore with the cafe, there's not just pasties you're doing with those ice people, isn't there. So various needs, but just on the topic of changing people's lives, I can vouch for that, because you support me very much. So in the apprentice program, and I've had a lot of positive feedback from a number of people who have been for that program who would vouch for the impact that you've had on them? So yeah, I'd say that was true. So thank you. And Nana, welcome back. If anyone you know, has got a fan club, by the way, I receive a message recently, from people from someone saying really enjoy your current series. And that none there are some really good questions. Can we have more of him, please? So, Nana, there's your cue. Tell us about yourself.
Thank you all the fans. Now, my name is Nana. I'm a father of two. Me and my fiance lives in Sweden. And we stumble upon this UK property journey 2019. And, yeah, we new to business, both from me and my fiance, and trying to learn every day from inspiring people like this panel. So I'm here to learn. And yeah, and we have also scaled some something in our business. So I hope I can give some value as well.
I'm sure you will. And welcome Nana, it's great to have you here. Again. Thank you. Excellent, excellent. All right. So there's a context so people know where people are, our audience knows, the listener knows where people are coming from, perhaps with some of the responses. But it's interesting, isn't it that a lot of us have got multi-facets to our life and our career and you know, everything. So we don't come at this from a single point of view, or a single point of reference. And I think that's actually quite rich in itself. But when it when the previous recording came out. So my version of this was talking about understanding ourselves, and perhaps understanding others, and then to talk about managing people, and then to talk about dealing with difficult situations. So what we've discovered, what we've discussed, is that we've probably follow that little format, as far as it takes us and obviously with an eye on time, which I'm sure we could talk forever, about many of those topics in their own right. But maybe let's just start with undoing understanding ourselves and understanding others would like to kick us off in that sense, what what do we need to know, in terms of understanding ourselves and others? Now, you don't have to put your hand up my friends, you know, you can just talk I think, Lisa, can
I think it's very important that you know, your strengths and weaknesses. So when you engage with people that you might want to work with, even if it's business partners, or if it's employees, you need to know, well, what are you good at? And what are you bad at, and try to minimize the bad or delegated to someone who can maybe take care of that?
I think there's a really interesting point about the understanding piece at the beginning, you know, I get that the strengths and the weaknesses. And I would add to that, you know, I know it's as soon as mentioned the specialties in values. You know, it's, it's, for me, it's very much about sometimes rediscovering yourself, actually, do you know who you are at the beginning? Because we get so caught up in life and the business of life. And I think COVID has actually allowed a little bit of a slowing down, where maybe we've been able to question Who are we, you know, who am I as a person? What's important to me? What do I value? Now? Where are my strengths? which areas do a nice develop? So, you know, I think it's great to question whatever stage of your life you're at.
Can I just say someone's there, Richard, as long as that's right? Yeah,
of course. Yeah, join in.
I can just completely I've been in London today for the first time in a year and talk to people and that rediscoveries slow down questioning. And what I'm learning is people are realizing what they need may be physically closer than they thought it was. It might, they might need less money to live on than they thought they did. The relationships around them maybe more important than they were and purpose seems to matter a little bit more about where we are, that's how people are talking to me. So my summary is perspectives have changed. They really have changed. And it's the kind of and there's a bit of a blaring now which I noticed in London Today between when I'm in work uniform, and when I'm not, it's like there's the list. There's not much, you know, most people are used to this kind of the vicar with his collar on, but actually, he's wearing his pajamas. It's, it's a different world. And it's okay to tell people a bit more about yourself and get a bit more trust in who you really are, rather than who you pretend that you are. And going back to what you just said, and I shattered my minute comment, because always what goes through my head? Is this the Spice Girls like, you know, what do you really, really want not? What do you tell people don't really do you really want. And, you know, and a brief chat with Kelly earlier, I'm getting out of the property because I don't really want to do it anymore. I want the results of it, not the actual process anymore. And COVID has given us the chance to say I'm just going to be honest about this. What do I really want? So that rediscovery. And, and I think conflict goes away when you suddenly understand what it is you actually want.
Being honest, being honest with yourself. And sometimes it's very hard to look in the mirror. And face those questions, which are easy just to sort of stuff back in the box again and say no, I won't deal with that today. Yeah, but actually opening the box, we've had the chance to open this box. And there's a little thing there. Because going from being a university director to a property owner to a psychologist and coach to being a cafe owner, is that all right? That COVID made it all right because you fit your values into what you're doing. And you might not have ever done that before. So and that's the most amazing journey you've had in terms of the different people that you've been in touch with.
Yeah, yeah. And back to the start, like you suddenly discover what it is that makes you alive every day. And sometimes you can get it through the simplest things.
Don't want to to get make sure Kelly's included in the conversation as well. And it sounds like you had a little sidebar conversation, the two of you before we all join. So Kelly, what's your take on understanding ourselves, maybe another's? Where'd you come from?
So for me, I personally think that you have to reevaluate life is almost like a part-time job. You need to see where you go and what you do in and we assess that on a regular basis. Like you would manage your money. That's a that's kind of like another part-time job. So because the direction in life changes all the time and people that you come across people that you meet. So yeah, just keep just checking rarely in on what it is that you want. And for me, other people's opinions don't matter, because it's me that's living my life. And there was a really interesting RP piece that I saw, and it was just little dots. And every single day, you wash it every day or every week, you just cross out a diet, and it's quite scary. Just how there's not much left if that makes sense. So that was it's just a visual rarely. So yeah. Well, it's interesting, because a couple of you already said things along the lines of what other people think. And is that right? Is that okay? You know, and you know, I think, and you know, what people are people as people present themselves versus who they really are. And so does you know, this points to other pressures, isn't it? You know, outside pressures on who we should be, how we should be what we should be. But I guess a lot of families, you know, it's interesting to pick up in your last point, Kelly, about it, 's a part-time job almost too kind of reflect and reevaluate. We know who you are and what you want out of life. But I wouldn't how many people actually do that? You know, what do you think? Do you think, you know, things, majority of people will actually sit back and go, what do I really want out of life? You might do? You know, when you're young and perhaps going through those, you know, just post-academic type of years or pre-academic? Or what do you want to be? I want to be this, okay, I'll go in that direction, we'll find education point of view, and then I'm at this, but then, then you're just this forever? Tell?
Richard, I think it's one of the ways I look at it is very much from what can I control in my life. And I think it's very easy to put blame on other situations, other people that are influencing your situation when you're not happy. But actually, what is the one thing we can do, we can change, we can change our thoughts, we can change our beliefs, you know, in a heartbeat, we can change our beliefs. And, therefore, we are taking back control and ownership and choice fulness of our life, rather than, you know, sitting and looking at the world as maybe the enemy You know, this is difficult, that's difficult, you know, so it's very much about I think, inwardly looking at you know, what can I control, what can I influence and I use a A, I suppose a little techniques, very simple technique. But really, if you just take your hand, and you just look at you what's in what's on your hand is within your control. And what's outside your hand is outside of your control. So if you're looking at a situation, you know, is this within me? is this? Is this something that's within the gift of my hand? Can I change it? Or if it's not? Is it on the outside of that? Well, can I influence it? No, well, then I just got to deal with it. It changed my beliefs, change my thoughts change my actions.
Think at the moment. Well, more so since social media days and COVID, I think the world can be a very negative place and very false and fake. So the motto I've always stood by is believed half of what you say and even less of what you hear. So people that are on the, you know, gone on these courses, and they've been promised to be millionaires, and they're posting pictures of being in boats. And that is just all there probably is, it might not actually be real. It might be a little old photo from it. It could be a photo, anything. It's the perception that they're given off in their life. So it's not getting drawn into somebody else's life, because that can very easily consume you. And it's just being drawn into your own life, and live in your life and not wishing to live somebody else's. It's for me, it's just about remaining positive. When everything else is negative, everybody can fight about COVID is it well, who's our judge what we should do what we shouldn't do? But the truth is, nobody actually really knows the answers to anything. You only know for yourself what's best. And so what is the point in getting involved in other people's business? Because it's none of your business?
That's right. And I don't know, Sue, this was running through your mind when Kelly was just talking. But I remember we had a conversation recently, didn't we, when we talked about the difference between being rich and wealthy? You know, and, and so I don't know if that was going through your mind, but maybe to cue you back in?
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I really like that word is a big thing in my life choice. fullness is that the word you use choice fullness. And the world is not your enemy. Like, you know, I have in my kitchen, the two circles, here's what you can control here and can't now put them together as their little bit in the middle, a little bit in the middle there, you can make a difference. So no, absolutely, yes. And well, as you said, Richard, in every aspect of your life, not about money, money is just about choice again, and choice fullness.
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think the thing is, obviously, a lot of you. So you know, over practicing, you know, coaching in this area, and I've got, you know, specific expertise, psychology backgrounds, or, you know, formal accreditation. And, you know, and or, you know, you talking about your own philosophy and values, which speaks of being one to take control of your life and your own destiny, and to review things on a regular basis, which all makes sense to me. But let's say there's someone listening to this right now, who's probably thinking, Well, how do I actually do that? How do I understand myself? You know, I mean, may may not actually say, How do I understand myself? Because perhaps they need to go and talk to someone if they asked that specific question. But you know, what I mean, it's like, how do what do I do? What are the steps? I might take other tools or techniques or processes or whatever, that might help me in that regard? How would you answer them?
Me personally, it's like, I don't have any training. So I'll do it from the non-training point of view, for me. And I think when stress anxiety creeps in, or just, just anytime, even happiness, there is a little thing called the wheel of life, which breaks down every single aspect. I got taught that in school, so from a very, very young age, to where you are in life, and you can easily Google that and find a wheel of life. And it breaks everything down to money, career, relationships, friendships, just everything. He could even add things in there. And it goes from naught to 1010, being the happiest, and those that are the lowest are the areas to concentrate on. So that wheel of life changes all the time. And this is why I say is, it's about reevaluated and reassessing as to where you are and it's given us is to get that balance of life. That's for me, as well as reading rarely positive books. And actually just saying nice things to people and being positive towards people because what you get what you give out is ultimately what you get back, and yeah, lots of YouTube positive things. And just being okay with the moment whether it's a sad moment When or whether it's a happy moment, we are humans, and it's emotion. So yeah, just being okay with it in general. But Kara?
Yeah, no, I mean, I would agree with that totally. And in within my business, we call it the thrive wheel. So very similar idea. And, you know, it is about balance. And I think it's really interesting. you've, you've reiterated this few times, it's brilliant, that you know, about the re-evaluation, that that needs to continue, because actually, your wheel before COVID, may be very different to your wheel after COVID. And, you know, the importance on maybe family and friendships has, you know, increased as an inner compared to before COVID. So, you know, I think that is a really great starting point, something I use with my clients is, it's actually following the Japanese idea of the Iki. Guy. So this is essentially his, his, you know, what is your reason for getting out of bed every day. And it's very much about the art of staying younger, whilst getting older. So everything about it is, is sort of following that, that that sort of ideal. And it looks like you know, what you're good at what you can be paid for. And you know, what, you know, where you can contribute in the world. So it's sort of ticking all the boxes, which ultimately, you know, it's a process of working on yourself, when you're going through the analysis, or working out what your Iki guy is, it is a process of spending time on yourself. So if that's something you do in the mornings, you know, it's about building a habit, where you're looking at yourself every day, and maybe you're journaling, journaling in the morning, your thoughts, maybe you're writing down some affirmations, but it's about for me, it's very much about looking into yourself and spending time with yourself and reconnecting with who you are as a person through a series of questions. And sometimes, you have to dig deep to find the answers if you really want to find the answers there. But you may have to dig deep to do that.
Indeed,
so Richard on I'm going to add to that is this, I call it being a detective on yourself, like, this is your new part-time job, you are now a detective, working out who you are. And I believe that two values all come down back to values, how do you know your values, you need to really look at your life and see what you spend your money on what you do. If I showed you around my room now, you'd see all my values? Absolutely. On the surface level here. I might not know them there. But you need somebody else to help you view that see the mirror for yourself and look again, look at other people. Because we all think our ways the way. And it's not always?
Absolutely,
What I do is, I actually think like, is this person or the time that I'm spending giving me value or taking me to where I want to be? If you ask that question all the time, like, regularly, then I think you will, like do stuff that you want to do when not waste time. And it's a really easy question to just ask yourself. Is this something that I want to do? Or I'm just doing it because someone wants me to do whether? Yeah,
I think you've raised a good point. If it's a word to share that could have to do then it's not right. But he just did something nano, which is, is it something I really, really want to do? And not everybody does know that they know what the world thinks that they want them to do or what their parents want them to do? Or what their employees or that what is that? Do they really know what they want to do? They kind of do? Yeah,
let's just pick on that a little bit further, because I sort of remember Nana, you've gone through this process of some sort of evaluation, you and Emily. So Nana, I'm really curious, because you and Emily went through a process recently, didn't you, I think some kind of evaluation, and you kind of based on Discovery, just tell us a little bit about that process and what it meant to you and what you discovered really without, you know, revealing too much information.
So basically, what we learned was how me and Emily complicated completed each other, and what, what we don't like and what we would do like so it's it was very, like, eye opening moment to really like okay, that's why she does this and that's why I do this. So I don't know how much he wants me to go into detail.
Not so much but what did you what was do you know, do you remember what the process was called? But it was a wealth dynamics. Yes, that's what it was called wealth dynamics. And basically, wealth dynamics just happens to be one of several psychometric evaluation tools. And so that's where I was fishing for, you know, so there are actually so you know, he talks about the wheel of life, Kelly, you know, there are some things that we can do to help us, you know, I know Sue does values exercise. Oh, you're back off mute now. So so maybe thinking joining Yeah, geez,
that was somebody walking into my house, and you and you live in a village this happens. And, yeah, so So me and Nana get we went through quite a long process, a different way of looking at your, basically Karen will understand is back to Union personality theory. It's the usual stuff, it's all the same. But they had quite a few moments are like, Oh, that's why he asked me that. And she's like, now he understands why I have to clean the house before we do anything very well. So it was a very, very good time wasn't it as funny.
That was, that was a useful exercise. And it'll be useful for the two of you as a couple to get through as well, I think but I guess to maybe a few tools that came out of that part of the conversation. But that's understanding ourselves. Now what we can't do, we can't go with a questionnaire, you know, to someone you know, at the bus stop and go, you know, would you mind just filling this in, so that when we get on the bus, I kind of know what kind of personality I'm dealing with here. When did we get into the conversation? You can't do that. Right? So how do we, you know, how do we try and evaluate and understand other people, so we know where they're coming from? And maybe we can kind of work together to understand each other better?
What about that? I think you need to ask, like, open and questions, and then you will, they will, hopefully, start talking and then you will know where they're coming from what culture because we think we should also, we shouldn't forget about culture. Like the, we mean, Emily, we have two virtual assistants from the Philippines. And it's very different from the European culture. So what you say matters, you know, you need to be very polite, and etc. You cannot just, and this is the same with when we are in the UK, because he always used to say, Please do everything. But here in Sweden, we don't say please do everything. So it can sometimes come out to be rude if you don't see it if you don't say it when you're in the UK. So I think that that's also quite important. So opening questions, I think.
I think it's, I think one thing I just wanted to add on to the end of the last piece about finding your understanding yourself, and sort of following on to this is, is about the fact that we all have a model of the world, we all see the world a certain way. So I might see the world one way. And Richard, you might see exactly the same world, a completely different way. So I think, actually, when you're developing these relationships and wanting to understand and, you know, work with other people, it's very much about having a respect, that we will see the world differently. Because of our experiences, because of our inner beliefs. potentially a belief that was in was brought into our life when we were six years old. I mean, it can be as in as far back as that. But we all see the world very differently. And one of the most telling ways is through the language that we use. So I have a profiling process. It's the I RAMs, motivational preferences. And it's very much about whether you are it could be analyzed as a towards a person or an away from a person. So are you motivated towards rewards? Or are you motivated away from pain, and actually, you can see that in people by the language that they choose. So it's very, very, it's very important to listen to the words that are being spoken to, you know, we all talk about listening, listening, listening, so important, but it's also about really listening to the detail of the conversation that people are saying to you because you'll get a lot of clues from those conversations.
Totally agree. I was gonna bring Kelly back. I don't know if you're currently gonna come back with that. But I recommend if you were a former police officer, and obviously, now you're dealing with tenants on a day-by-day basis. So you talked to a lot of people, right, and you know, from different perspectives there. So when you're having those sorts of conversations, how do you kind of go about it from that context?
And for me, 90% is not what A person stays, but how they act and what they're saying what? So, it's really hard to explain, you know, when you just do it, and you don't have the training in psychology and things like that. So, yeah, most definitely how the person's acting towards you. So, you know, if you've asked a question, and it's a little bit off-limits, because they're gonna back away, you know, if they're comfortable, because they're close to you, or they're smiling, they're happy. You will know when you hit pain points because there are just certain triggers in the body language, there might look away from that. So for me, that's a great telltale sign as to a, whether the line not quite telling you the truth, or being deceitful. Or, or if, if they are being open and honest, and you know, open and honest, they're gonna are excited, they're gonna start using lots of hand expressions and smiles. And that's a doozy as them as well. So yeah, it's for me, it's about body language.
Wise, it's an interesting topic there. And of course, it's not just the words we speak, part communication, we communicate, you know, insight, you know, that's what 10% is it, I don't know, what the science tells us, but such a limited part of what we, how we communicate. And maybe to flip that on its head a little bit. And to move us into the next part, to some extent, we sort of understanding others but managing others. So in order to manage others, we have to maybe influence them to do something that we would want them to do. So we are sort of keep with you, Kelly for now, because you know, just why we're why we've got you on Mike actually. But in terms of, you know, managing or you know, getting people to do maybe I don't, I don't want to say a manipulative way, you know about what we want them to do. But we know we have an interest, we need something doing. So how have you got any sort of insights or tips or the way Kelly goes about things, and that's in that area?
Again, I think managing other people, it's about managing yourself. So in a conflict in the situation, you can't manage their anger, or I don't know, this is from a police perspective and a letting agent, we had one guy come in, and he was just so angry because we wouldn't, he didn't pass relevant checks. And he was just raging. And I thought at one point is just gonna end up hitting somebody. He was up here. If I went to his level that would have clashed. So it wasn't about managing him. It didn't matter what I said, because his aggression, his anger, it, it wasn't listening to anything. So it was about managing myself and managing to remain calm and stay down here, and the positive Rich relation? And can I bring him back down to my level? So we could then have that conversation. So that's in more of a conflict in way more of a positive way, is just having a conversation and seeing if it's something that could benefit you, if you want somebody to do something. How can you assist them to get what you want is not all about manipulation? Again, for this side, it's what's best for both parties. I don't know if that causes your question. But
yeah, but let's keep talking about what other people have to say about that. I mean, you know, maybe there's some NLP people on this call. So they'd be already we're going out Richard, you use that phrase about how do you get people to do what you want? And But anyway, so how do we motivate people? How do we, you know, manage people, whether that's someone who directly reports to us, or someone we engage, let's say it was outside, or even just, you know, people that were associated with, in some way, have a
slightly flawed view of NLP there, by the way, but nevermind. Agreed. Yes. So anyway, just so I'm very somebody who's never done anything like this before, I would say what we talked to Nana about is, first of all, seek to understand that person, so are they extrovert or introvert? Are they big picture detail do they took away from or towards stuff and just think about how you then communicate with that person so that you're getting the best out of them for the win-win? We're all looking forward to me it. I don't always practice it at home. But it works if you do with children. What are they trying to do? How do they see the world? How do I talk to them in a language that they know understand what they need to do? So that I get basically what we both need out of this and that's where we waste. I always start about the conflict there, I have learned to believe that when you have a conflict of values, it's often something about yourself that you don't admit to. Yeah. Often there's a bit about you that you're not willing to, to expose or talk about. Because you, you know, like, we talked about tribes A while ago, Richard, there are some tribes in the world that don't know the color green. So the color green doesn't exist, you have to know it, about it to understand it. So one of your values is being tricked if you're upset and in conflict with somebody, and then like Kelly said, it's about you in yourself. Sometimes it's like looking in the mirror. Yeah. Even if you don't want to see that.
Yeah, yes, it's that thing. You know, it's what is it saying about yourself more than what is it saying about the other person? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
seek first to understand the things Stephen Covey says, so that's the principles that you're getting out there. So try and try and put yourself in the other person's shoes first.
Yeah, I always try to, to see what drives they're the people it's like bonus, or is it like for a good cause? And try to utilize that way? If it's something that I want to get out of them? Yeah.
To try and find out what drives them? Yeah. And appeal to that. So I'll tell you, it's an Aston Martin nano. Okay. isn't actually funny. It used to be that's interesting, in itself, the fact that he did, he did want
an Aston Martin represents and what that gives you, it might not be the car.
Exactly. But it's interesting, just to come back on one thing there because, you know, I'm okay with it, because I kind of you sue, you are very gentle in picking me up on the whole prejudice or a different view on NLP. But actually, you know, that probably was a clue to me, not actually fully understanding what it was. And so, I think we all have those prejudices and those biases, you know, those preset, you know, ideas, mistakenly or otherwise. And that can cause issues concept sometimes because we don't, we're not always aware of what you know, other people's beliefs are and what their history is, and their experience of something is, and so wishes, especially if you're meeting people, you know, for the first time, we haven't met them very much. It can make Dino having an encounter or conversation or managing them to pick up on what we're talking about with this thing. slightly tricky at times, can't it?
I think it comes to me back to that point of just accepting that we all have different models of the world. So for whatever reason, for you, Richard, that has been your experience, or your learning or your or not complete information, if that's a reaction that we've given because we will see it from a different perspective. So you know, it's very much about seeing this from other people's perspectives. And, and I think some it's really useful, I think, if you're in times of conflict, and you want to resolve it, I think that's the first thing, actually, do you want to resolve this conflict? You know, what will this get for you, if you resolve this conflict, and it is something you really do want to resolve? I think it's very much about looking at it from your shoes, then actually stepping into their shoes, and really thinking through what is their experience of this, you know, if I was looking at it from their view of the world, what's happening for them, and then actually looking at it from the fly on the wall perspective. So, you know, let's look at these two people interacting with this conflict. That's maybe like a little cloud over the top of them, you know, what's actually happening, because when you remove yourself from the situation, and you look at it from lots of different perspectives, you can gain insight that maybe you hadn't seen before. And it might just allow you a different perspective, a different way of approaching a solution.
It's funny because you're right, and I think, you know, everyone's going through everyone necessarily, actually, but a lot of people are going through change whether it's forced upon them or it's something they've chosen to do. And you know, people perhaps are reevaluating and reflecting and I myself am going through a process in you know, of discovery. Some of that is deliberate I every year right, I do the wheel of life, by the way, Kelly, I have reinvented it. I've reinvented the wheel, I've got a much bigger version, and the original whatever eight pieces of the pie will that is the piece of the pie. We'll whenever you know that I kind of work on but anyway, the point I'm making is that, you know, I've always discussed things about myself recently, I just didn't even know, you know, and I did have no insights of I was just unconscious of. And you know that that became apparent to me. And it's really revealing to have that. But equally, I think what you're talking about in terms of putting yourself in the other shoes? Do you want to make a change? Or not? Do you want to resolve a conflict? That's a really good question to ask. Now, I've got a situation at the moment where, you know, someone is, you know, working on projects, and it's not, they're not necessarily doing it, you know, as as they should be. And they're becoming hostile. And I'm thinking that you're not, you're the one not doing what you should be doing. But you're becoming hostile. You know. So that's really strange. And the words were echoed back to me earlier, when I was talking about this, was when you trap a rat in the corner or go for your throat? It's like, yeah, I guess that's one way of looking at it. But you know, so let's just dive into the point, because we touched on a little bit of like, difficult situations, conflict being one of them. But you know, so I kind of want to take it there, perhaps, you know, towards the end of the conversation, so what do people you know, how do people go about dealing with difficult conversations? How do people deal with tricky situations? And tricky people for that matter?
So I usually use, like, yeah, put it like on me that, like, I'm stupid and not understanding you. So please help me to understand the situation. So then I think it's much easier, the environment will be much easier when you take in those difficult conversations, because 10 years, like, see, the person will see us, okay, he doesn't understand our need to make him understand how far I explained it? Well,
I think using the word help, is actually it's Yes, we often, if somebody asks us for help, then actually, it's something that is a route, it's something we can give, it's, it's being generous and kind without time. So you know, when if someone comes to you and asks for help, actually, we are more likely to give it service, you know, help me understand this. If it's a situation that you're not understanding, you know, why is this not working? What's happening here, but actually, my my take on this is actually sort of honesty, just being honest, and having the conversations before they get to the point where they are, you know, different really difficult, because then it becomes personal. And it's, it's actually wanting to keep the personal element out of this. It's about behaviors. Often, it's about our behavior. And again, you know, behaviors, you know, they're all very personal to us. And we will all have our own reason why we act in a certain way. Now, whether that is whether you agree with that, Kelly, or, you know, Nana, whether you agree with that behavior that I might do, you know, it's my behavior. So, you know, it's about, again, respecting the other person's view of the world and jumping in before it gets to the point of, you know, really becoming difficult.
I think we've all had that time where we've had to have a difficult conversation with somebody, and you know, what difficult conversation you're gonna have with somebody and you are running that through your head, probably longer than you should have done and that's your fear setting him and for me, that's just like false evidence appearing, appearing real. So with my backgrounds, I have just learned to rip that plaster off, treat the situation with the sympathy the respect whatever it needs to be, but most definitely honesty like you've said, Cora, and just let the situation pay play out. If they're angry, that's an emotion because sometimes if it's a difficult conversation, because maybe they're not liking what they're hearing and so for instance, there is no easy way to tell somebody that their partner has just been just gone underneath the bus or you know, just died in a there is no easy way to say that. But it's what you do after the conversation and making sure that you are there What, what, don't leave it in a raw such a raw situation. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah. For me, it just rip the plaster off and don't roll it over in your head and just keep it honest, realistic, human and simple.
I had a couple of things that is as as I get older in life, and I'm the oldest here and there are situations where I wouldn't even bother like if that doesn't person hasn't been my life. They don't need banned my life and I wouldn't move, I would do my best and not have the stress of dealing with them. And the other thing you just said to me really made me think about generally, I've never been in those situations, I can imagine them. But my life's not that important. Does that make sense? It's about property and people and coffee shops. But even the people who come in the coffee shop, how they feel is what matters. Not anything that's said or done, or how expensive The coffee is, is, how did they feel when they came in? And how did they feel when they left? And I think that's in conflict at work all my life, I've always tried to think how does this other person feel about this. And I might not agree with them. And I've even done what you think, or I've gone into work out of time, and sat in that person's chair, and watched from their perspective physically, to see what it feels like sitting there to see if I can gain any kind of perspective. And, and many times, I've just simply helped that person out of that job, rather than trying to force them keep keeping that relationship and keeping it so
close as such situation I recently found myself in I recently acquired a business. And it's fundamentally subletting agency, you know, it's got a little twist, but it's a blessing agency. And unfortunately, we have one or two problems, let's say lurking, and in particular was a tenant who had complained, now he had a hole in the ceiling, caused by a leak, and it been there, for the whole have been there for a couple of months. And basically, it was a little dissatisfied, and, you know, finally came to my desk. And so I gave him a call. And it just was just, I've just taken over this business, I know that you know, you've had this unfortunate incident, I don't really know what's going on, could you just explain to me I would just like to hear what's happened, and maybe what you'd like to see as next steps, etc. And he should sort of be who is very calm, but it was quite clear that he was ranked. We've what had gone on. And anyway, long story short, he was he wanted compensation for this. Now, neither, you know, I kind of talked him through, you know, where you know, what my values were funny enough. So I shared my values. In the early part of the conversation, I said, I had a daughter his own age, and I wouldn't lie with what happened to him to have happened to her. And you know, things like that. And I said, Listen, I'm just going to do make some inquiries because the property concern isn't ours, we need to talk to the owner and find out what happened with this particular repair and what went on. And the owner of the business, you know, was different at the time this happened. So please let me make these inquiries and come back to talk a little bit longer to make the inquiries. And he lied to me a couple of times, anyway, came back to him and said, You know, this is what I found and you know, kind of outlined it to your point, Kelly about being factual and transparent. And, and then, unfortunately, I can't actually offer you any compensation. Because whilst I know that you're unhappy with the situation, by and large, the problem was dealt with, okay, could have been a bit better in places, but it was dealt with, I'm happy to make this sort of gesture for you. But it's just want to reiterate, I'm really, I'm really unhappy about the experience you had. And, you know, we've basically, I'd already agreed to cut him loose from his tendency, for example, and a small token, but long story short, he came back to me his words were, I was expecting perhaps a little bit more of a fight. But he came back to me, he said, Do you know what, Richard, I'm happy with this response? You're the first person who's gonna show me any sympathy for what I've been through at all. He said, so I'm just gonna move on. Thank you very much for listening to me. And we just leave it at that. And I was like, I actually went back to us a fair play to you, you know, because it's so hard to do, sometimes just let things go. But I respect you and admire you for that. And in fact, if you just send me your address, I'd like to send you a token of my, my thanks, just to say thank you for that. But I wish you well in the future. So that was just a little example. And I don't know if I did it. Textbook correctly. But you know, I just was trying to be me, I was just trying to be a human. And I tried to put myself in his shoes. And equally, when I went back with bad news, I just told him the bad news. But I did you know, that's it had a word it was I did show that sympathy or that understanding of your situation. So maybe that's one difficult situation. I don't know what it is other people. I've got similar examples that could relate.
I think also, I'm not hiding behind emails. It's so easy to hide behind messages, text emails. And actually, I've got a property at the moment that we're trying to sell, and the tenant is going to have to move out early. That's just it's just the way it is. And it's unfortunate, but it is the way it is. And she actually became difficult with the chaps who are selling the property for us and said, No, I'm not gonna let anybody in for the whole time leading up to this, you're not gonna be allowed to do any viewings. And this just doesn't sound right. So I just called her said, you know, Okay, so here's the situation. You know, we're dreadfully sorry this has happened. You know, you know that. You know, what, what can we do to make this happen? Why? What can we do to make this happen? And within a couple of minutes, you said, Yeah, I'm absolutely fine with that. That's actually fine, because you can add people in. And it was exactly as you say, which it was about being human. It was about the fact that actually she wanted to be listened to, she wanted to be heard, she wanted her voice heard. And so so being present with her, and I think that's something else is is really important in today's day and age is being present with, with other people in their space. You know, when you're having this communication, when you're building this report, it's about you really listening to them, really hearing them and being present, giving them the respect of being in that space with them.
It's something very few people do, honestly, most people's, you've learned from coaching, it's listening, listening to the right, listen, most people listen with an intent to speak. And I have a very good measure of this. If you say to somebody, oh, this guy Joe at work really annoys me because he keeps leaving early, and he pisses everybody off. And if the pert The next thing I'll say is, I used to know, Joe, is I all I've heard is this, I know I am, it is my life. And we, we've we've we've somehow stopped I think COVID made it better, just just letting that person tell you their story and asking about the story a bit more. And you've both said Richard and Kira, and Kelly to an extent there, what you're doing is tuning into the other person and letting them just talk to you about stuff. Amazing what comes out, isn't it?
Yeah, I think everybody at the moment is very, into talking about themselves or you though, and not actually probably where mental health comes in. Because we say that we're going to listen, or I'm always here to talk. But the minute you open up and say something like you said, Susan, you're Oh, yeah, I've been there, I've done that I II and before, you know, it's not actually getting into any root cause of the problem. But the minute they believe that they're being listened to, just makes things a little bit easier and better.
And it's amazing what can come out, you've all told stories where actually you're really afraid of a situation but you face it, sometimes the complete opposite of what you think is going on is actually going on in that person's mind. And it's solved within minutes, when you know what it is they're looking for, and what they want to actually hear what they're saying.
One of the things I was also going to say is, so we're talking about the other person who we've been talking about the other person a little bit now, there's also ourselves and we talked about feelings, for example, a couple of times, we just brushed on it. And you know, and he does ego as well, like we want to defend perhaps ourselves, we want to protect ourselves in some way. And then we might get riled, we might get angry and annoyed or something when something happens. And then we may overreact. We may not, you know, say the right thing, do the right thing in the heat of the moment. And so you know, I'll cue you in for your tips. But again, something that I've discovered, I guess over time, is to add, you know, two things, if I feel physically I normally feel something myself in my body, I'm feeling something in my body going on, my heart rate is going or something like that. I feel a pinch of red in my cheek or something as like, try and give space or time. Try and give space or time before my next reaction. I haven't always lived my life that way. And you know, you know, I found myself repeating patterns ago. Oh, there I go again, right. But I've kind of learned to put the brakes on a little bit and just bring you know, space or time or space means just literally physical space. And time beans. Just hang on a minute, I'm gonna pause 10 seconds, take a few breaths. But it could be I'll come back to you later. You know. So there's, there's my tip, if you like in terms of managing my own emotions in tricky situations, because I think that can happen as well. So then if people have got their own life experience that they want to share in that context,
I think emotions is the key point all of this you cannot let anything on on emotions. And I will tell you a very recent, tragic, sad story. That happens probably about five weeks ago, there was a snapchat group of teenagers and this Snapchat group. They were talking between them and I think a racist comment was made. And girls being girls once said, Get out the group you slack. But from that that night, that girl took her own life, which is absolutely tragic. She was 14. But there were 20 children in this group. So take yourself back to your school days where everything you know would stop at the gates. All this back and forth. Did it on this occasion because it was on Snapchat. So my son was actually one of the persons in this group, although we'd never said anything. And then all over social media was about how 20 children are bullied this girl to death pretty much. And all their names were released on social media, then they were all getting death threats. So my son was obviously then getting death threats just for being part of a snapchat group. People obviously having to not go to school, so very, very, that me as mom absolutely heartbroken from so on, as well as the other parents. I decided not to comment on anything other than change my profile to just be kind. And albeit Five days later, it turned out that actually there was no bullying at all. It was just comment. So it is about taking that emotion out. That was a big thing for me to kind of deal with that home. But I took the emotion out and concentrated on where is it better and trying to get my son to understand why it's happening and what's happening. So again, it's just emotion, and listening to people as to why and not listening to others. Does that make sense? So it's a biggie for me personally.
We're all nodding away there. By the way, no, this is a podcast. And we're all being present in the moment. But I just wanted to make sure that Kelly wasn't left hanging. So nuts is such a story.
But I have a difficult experience. I agree with what you're saying, curling in what you said as well return regarding just slowing it down. And then take a decision and don't just take a rational decision that you may be might regret. Now there's as well, yeah, exactly.
positive side, the flip side to this, obviously, there's, there's times where we need to maybe pull ourselves back count to three, you know, take that breath. And we're acute enough to realize that we are in that moment where this needs to happen. But I think actually what we can also do is we can use emotion, and adrenaline and state, and really the word I want to use this state here to, to, I'm trying to think of the word to you, for example, if we wanted to go in and you know, maybe we were going to go into a difficult conversation, and we were nervous about it, that actually maybe what we want to do is put ourselves in a state of confidence. And so you can develop some states that will help you in those situations. So it's like some of the these these famous pop stars who have you know, these alter egos, when they go on the stage there, you know, whoever they are, and forgive me for not knowing who these people are, my children will be slightly mortified by not knowing who these people are. But you know, they go on the stage and they've got alter egos that because that person who goes on the stage has the confidence, you know, has the rigor has you know that whatever it is they're looking for. So we can also use state, to our benefit to change state to create something within ourselves, like confidence, for example.
And a really simple way of doing it. I agree with what you're saying is what I found with people who've been through nothing like that is just to say, tell me who you admire and how they would deal with this. And just what would they do? You know, it's like, what would Jesus do? Isn't it? What would a policeman do? What is your best friend do? What would Richard do? What would car do now and try and do? Here's a different way of approaching this thing. Did it? Did it work? Or didn't it work? So yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think there's a third thing I was gonna say is I think we will have a kind of what's the right way of putting it in a way we revert to extreme conditions? And I absolutely know and Richard knows I have martyr, I'll go into martyr fast. Like, why did they do that? They're my stepchildren. Why are they being mean to me? It's like, No, no, they're not being mean. They just don't see the world the way you see it today. Your dinners not as important as it to you like you chose to make it you know, you invite them. You know, there wasn't doing any harm to them. We've all got this little shadow person that goes on. That's how I'm gonna deal with this and it doesn't always work. Try someone else's way. Yeah.
Good. Okay. Well, I'm just thinking about the time and probably what I want to do now is maybe close in a little minute or two. So what I'm going to do is just perhaps go around the room and just pick up some maybe final thoughts or maybe a top tip or something that you know, just want to contribute that perhaps hasn't already been said. If you have one, you know, to leave people with parting thoughts. You know, in terms of whether it be understanding ourselves and others, whether it be managing those, or whether it be dealing with a difficult situation. So just trying to elongate that question, so you've got time to think about your answer. And whoever's ready, perhaps, to join in with the answer, can speak first. Okay, first,
if you'd like, Richard, now finish on that. And that is whatever the problem is, try and be creative about how you solve the problem look at it a different way. And we do this in property all the time, don't be like, Is there a way I haven't thought about yet that would achieve the goals of these people that I really haven't thought about yet.
Ask them what they want, and see if we can make it happen. Sorry, go on. Cory.
I would say if you're not happy with a situation, a relationship, you know, be choice full, you can change it, it doesn't have to stay like that. You don't have to live in that space. You can do something about it.
Yeah, from me, it's just tried and keep emotions out of it. And just keep checking in on yourself Really? Sounds good.
I think for me, it would be you know, life's short. So it's picking up a couple of your links to that sort of theme earlier. So we can choose who we have in our lives to a large extent. So life's short, you know, we can choose who we have around us. I think the other thing is, would you appreciate if it ended up in the papers? If you think about that, would you appreciate it? I mean, obviously, the papers might not tell the full version. So that is the other side of it. But if your actions, you know, made it onto the papers, would you be happy with it. So if you can live with that, then maybe it was good. If you wouldn't want to live with it, maybe don't do what it was, you were thinking of doing next. That would be my parting tip. So there we go. Thanks so much, everybody. So I wasn't really sure how that will go. And we've gone in a really interesting direction with this conversation. And of course, that's the beauty of having so many different people with different backgrounds, and different experiences. So thank you, I really appreciate all of you making the time today. And, you know, with this is rescheduled. So thanks everyone for being flexible in this in the rescheduling, re-appreciate that. So that will come out this week. And what I normally ask people to do is to if you'd like your contact details to be shared you perhaps you can let me have them and then pass them on. But equally, if anybody wants to make any website announcements or anything like that, or contact details now you have, you know, you have the opportunity of doing so. Kara, I actually wanted to say something specifically to you. Because you actually asked me earlier today about podcasting, didn't you? I did. So I'm gonna make it I'm going to I'm just going to open the mic and say, you know, maybe you could actually share some news that's coming in, and maybe I could hold you to account we'd
love for you to hold me to account. That's always great. I love a bit of accountability. Yeah, so I actually pinged Richard a message earlier to say, I'm really excited. I want to start a podcast called thriving midlife. And actually, I was asking Richard, all the top tips about you know what to do. And so I'm really looking forward to having a conversation with you, which is about that. And I'm really excited about having a podcast called thrive in midlife, it's really there to show you that it's never too late. It's going to be about interviewing experts, specialists in all areas of midlife with the art of staying younger whilst getting older. And that's it in a nutshell. Sounds good
to me. Well, all I'd say in terms of podcasting is Do as I say, not necessarily as I do. So that is the first tip. anybody got any contact information they want to share on air? Or do you want to take it into their social media posts, etc? Yeah,
I have a podcast, obviously, thing I've learned podcast, which has been on it. And I'm usually reachable on Instagram, miracle underline properties on the line, Ltd. and the I just sent a message, send a message. And yeah, nice speaking with all of you
know, how do you say your podcast again? Because it's, you know, it's not easy sometimes for people who are not Swedish to say that word.
So paying flood. So it's cash flow in Swedish, basically. So I translated Okay.
All right. No one else is coming off, Mike. No. So in that case, I just wanna say thanks again. Really appreciate it. Let's see how that goes down. But I'm very grateful for you giving time today to talk about this valuable topic. So I wish you All the best. And I've got to probably do a closing one I know so because it's going to go so if if you want to see the show notes including a transcription of the over the website, thepropertyvoice.net if you want to talk about anything from today's episode or the introduced one of the guests or talk to me about anything to do with property, you can reach me podcast at the property voice.net. And I guess all that remains to be said is thanks very much for listening to me once again this week. And until next time on the proxy wars podcast.
Thank you for listening today. Now head over to thepropertyvoice.net. For more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the property voice podcast and if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate us on iTunes.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai