13 episodes, 17 great guests (+1) and as I saw it,15 common themes...that's the culmination of another series on going full-time in property.
I was joined by some everyday people doing extraordinary things that you don't see every day in life. From people who literally do have the t-shirt and can live off the assets and income base they have created over time, to others part-way down the path and then the new intrepid adventurers setting sail on their own journey to become full-time in property too.
This is the summary and wrap up of what we covered over the past few months; a kind of exec summary if you like.
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Transcription of the show
13 episodes, 17 great guests (+1) and as I saw it,15 common themes...that's the culmination of another series on going full-time in property.
I was joined by some everyday people doing extraordinary things that you don't see every day in life. From people who literally do have the t-shirt and can live off the assets and income base they have created over time, to others part-way down the path and then the new intrepid adventurers setting sail on their own journey to become full-time in property too.
This is the summary and wrap up of what we covered over the past few months; a kind of exec summary if you like.
Property Chatter
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Property Voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown and as always, it's a pleasure to have you join me again on the show today. Well, here we are. We've reached the end of another series. It's series seven, all about going full-time in property. And yeah, it's quite late, actually. I've got about 4,000 words of notes, which I don't plan to read in full, don't worry about that, but I'm going to try and cover a bit of ground in terms of just trying to draw some conclusions really or common threads from the last what's been 13 episodes actually since the 21st of May, including this particular summary.
During that time, we've had 18 guests, some of them on panels, as you've probably heard in the last few weeks. But prior to that, we had a few people who joined us individually. And my clear intention with this particular series was to showcase what I call everyday people. So hopefully that's come through.
In previous series, I've showcased really sort of decamillionaires as they call them, very highly successful people. And the people on this particular series, they're either are full-time in property already, or deriving an income or have a significant asset base which has been derived through property in the most part, or they are somewhere along down the track for the second-steppers, which is what we heard about a few weeks ago. And most recently the newbies or the new adventurers who started out more recently, who want to follow that particular path.
So as I say, everyday people, but they're actually extraordinary in many ways, the guests I have on the show. I'm just going to try and dip into and name check as many of them as I possibly can throughout the course of today's wrap up and give them credit where credit's due.
So it's been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed it. Apologies for those people who did reach out to me and say, "Hey, can I appear on this particular series about going full-time in property?" If you've listened into last week and obviously this week, yes, I got your messages, but I particularly wanted to showcase people that are already in my network, in my inner circle to some extent. That means, one, I know them quite well and two, I can kind of vouch for their story, first of all, and also their character and their values. And I thought that was really important to bring out over the last few weeks as well.
So apologies if you've written in or you have an interest in appearing on the show on this particular series, but that's the explanation. So please don't be offended and please do perhaps reach out to us for another opportunity, who knows?
So we kicked off obviously after my introductory piece on the 21st of May with Ian Brown, and I'll just highlight a couple of things that Ian said. He talked about leverage on leverage. So just utilizing, not just financial leverage, but other forms of leverage, as well, and to be become first of all, his own bank, but also becoming the bank for other people. And that was quite interesting, wasn't it? Because there was a transition really over the time that he's been working full-time in property.
He leveraged his own pension, if you remember, for his SSAS pension. And then, in addition to using it for his own growth purposes, he also used it for other people, as well. So, there were a lot of other things that came out from Ian, as well as having a clear plan, but I'm just trying to dip into some highlights there.
And after Ian, we had Rich, or Richard Parker, and we talked about him going sort of motorbiking across Nepal, having worked for Ford Motor Company. And he took a sort of less deliberate path really. He started dabbling as a hobby with property, and then it all changed. One book actually, as he said, changed everything. He read Millionaire Fast Lane and that was the catalyst, if you like, for him to do something else.
But what he did do right from the beginning, he was very professional. If you remember, he said he formed a limited company even though he didn't really have clear intentions of it being a formal business, but he wanted to professionalize what he was doing.
Lots of things that came up in our conversation, but something else I really wanted to highlight that Rich said, was, "Enough is enough." And what he was talking about was sufficiency, financial sufficiency. And we sometimes get into the drug as I call it, of income from employment or contracting or even our own business. But actually we don't need necessarily all of our income. In fact, when we work for ourselves, we can actually be more efficient with tax benefits, for example. So we don't need as much in any case. And it's not all about the money and that's going to be a consistent thing that comes out. So those key couple of highlights there from Rich.
Then we had a showcase, a couple of the girls, a couple of the ladies we had, we started with Rupal, Rupal Patel and she said she had a non-planned plan. So I think that means she had a plan, but it means the course changed direction over the way. She knew she wanted to be her own boss and she has this multi-passionate lifestyle as she describes it. And for her and her husband, in fact, and particularly for Rupal actually, property was a means to an end. It enabled her to do the other things in life, do the things in life that she really wanted to do. So I thought that was really interesting. So lots of people say, "I love property," but Rupal doesn't love property, but she loves what property enables and brings to her, so that was cool.
Some of the parting takeaways that she mentioned were having a runway and this is a consistent theme. In fact, when we talk later in the series with some of the new starters in particular, they talked about how hard it was and how long it takes and it's good to have either a supplementary income or perhaps your partner is still earning, or you've got a side hustle or you've got savings set aside. So Rupal made that point and she's already at the other end of the journey. Having a runway is really important.
And she said, "Knuckling down before momentum kicks in." So, yeah. It can be awhile before the results are seen, but if you just keep at it eventually it will start to pay off and the snowball will kick in, as it were. Again, she talked about the importance of having things written down.
But her final point was accepting who you are and getting to know what your superpower is. And in fact, when I come towards the end of today's episode, I'm going to talk about some of the common threads and superpower is definitely one of them, but it's not as super as you might imagine. We don't necessarily need to be one of the Invincibles or the Incredibles. I think I got the name wrong last time. So that was Rupal.
And then we had the delightful Kemi, Kemi Egan. and Kemi was really, I guess, how do you say it? She went through some hard times and she was even sleeping in her office building as her business was kind of failing really, her physiotherapy business was failing. So some pretty hard times. She had to go and she said take a shower at the local gym because there weren't facilities in the office where she was living.
But she literally did the miles, in more ways than one, pounding the motorway to focus on predominantly a rent to rent strategy before she kind of made it. And now she's looking at a 90 unit scheme with a financial sponsor in quite a short period of time so she's done really well for herself.
But what she said in conclusion was, "Don't wait for permission. Don't wait for someone else to give you permission to go and get what is rightfully yours." But here's the thing she said, "Become what you need to become to make it happen."
So, that really says two things, doesn't it? Just don't wait, make a start. You don't need anyone else to give you permission or authority or a blessing to make a start in this thing. But we do need to become something or somebody along the way. And that implies a journey, a transition and a process. And I think she made that point really well with that. So there's a couple of highlights from Kemi.
Then we had Paul Million, yes, his real name. And he talked about, I think, three decades in property and how he really grafted his way, I mean, literally grafted his way through properties. He'd taken the fronts off houses and things like that and rebuilding them from the ground up, if you like. A very straight talking, plain English sort of guy, but a wealth of knowledge and very, very much into personal development, I have to say.
And now he's moved into larger complex developments and conversions, looking at co-living, focusing on design. I think he's got joint ventures coming out of his ears. So that's Paul. And I think there was an awakening later in his career. That's an interesting thing, a bit like with Rich Parker. So there was an awakening later. So he was kind of grafting and doing things, but kind of not really realizing his full potential. And I think he's starting to do that now.
He talks about the three, if I can say it, three frogs and three pieces of an elephant. You swallow a frog whole and you can eat an elephant once at a time.
And he talked about how he carves up his day, how he prioritizes, and how he does things. So, and also not focusing on what he calls shelf-help, books and procrastinaction. In other words, it's taking action which is going to be the key differential that's going to define your success. That was that.
And after Paul, we were reunited, if you like, with Damien, Damien Fogg. And I think with Damien, he really immersed himself, didn't he, into the property industry. He became a chartered surveyor, an RICS Chartered Surveyor. He worked as a letting agent and a portfolio manager with the MOD and really sort of taught himself from the inside out, both in terms of vocationally, but also professionally as well.
So all that was really interesting, and he's a bit of a money geek if you haven't spotted already. So just follow Damien and I'm sure you learn lots about personal finance in general by following him. Property was definitely his first asset class or one of his first asset classes, actually, not necessarily the first and he's taken it on from there.
And what was really interesting with Damien, I think, he started with the sort of flashy life, with designer watches and flashy cars, but now he lives a more modest lifestyle. He kind of grew out of it, as it were. I mean, he retired at age of 32, so he wasn't particularly old. So I know he could still afford to do some of the things he was doing when he was younger. So, it's just interesting how things change, how people's priorities shift over time.
But he took a deliberate plan in what he did. He had adopted a BRR, or Buy, Refurbish, Refinance strategy. He took repayment mortgage and he was overpaying. He wanted to get his mortgages paid off as quickly as possible and become debt-free as quickly as possible. And that seems a little bit counterintuitive, but that's Damien for you. He's a little bit counterintuitive, a little bit contrarian. So that was Damien.
And then bringing up the last of the solo episodes was myself, of course. And it was kind of weird really to have the tables turned. Helen Pollock, happily, rather, came on and interviewed me on the Property Voice podcast and I'm not sure if I covered everything I wanted to cover in that particular episode. I don't know why I talked about my paper route so much, but yeah, I think it was just to demonstrate a strong work ethic. But by the way, a lot of our guests talk about strong work ethics so it's good that I guess I did really.
And of course, I talked about my own sort of growth becoming full-time after about three or four years into my experience, if you like, stepping out from corporate land and not really having, I had a bit of a runway, as we referred to earlier, but not the biggest one, not the longest one by any means. And I think I also highlighted that delay cost me quite significantly and perhaps we'll return to that later on.
But equally I had a couple of mindset shifts along the way, so it wasn't just one epiphany. There was a couple of mindset shifts along the way. And in particular in terms of growth and scale, which only actually came quite a long way into my journey right about 2016, 2017 when I started to step out and take on larger projects.
And so what I sort of concluded with was two key things that set us apart. One is our mindset and that's quite a catch-all phrase, but includes our self-belief and having a can-do attitude, a solution focus and just being relentless really.
And then the second thing is the importance of the people and the environment that we're in. That's kind of what I've learned personally. So, lifting the glass ceiling that is above us in terms of our thoughts and our belief, but equally being surrounded by people who can help us and support us. And I often like to say, "I like to be the dumbest person in the room." And yeah, I kind of prove that quite a bit actually, but I really like to have that, which basically means I'm surrounded by some really good people.
So we did the sort of solo episodes to the first part of the series, if you like. And then towards the end, we did a couple of two-parters with a panel in each case. So the first panel guests were what I call second-steppers. So we have Carl Gilbert, Anthony Boyce, Omanice Olusola, Sven Chesters and Daniel Riley. Apologies if I haven't said people's names correctly there. But there were a number of points that came out of the panel discussions. So bear in mind, these are people who've started along the journey, but are not quite, I used the analogy of not being able to put their feet up on the beach and sip pina coladas all day. They're not quite at that level yet, but they're a little bit way down the track.
And the very first thing that I noted was perseverance. And in fact, self-belief and confidence. So these are people who've already stepped out and perhaps had a bit of a, they found the realities, as it were, and they're talking about perseverance and this is where superpower comes into it again.
So superpower doesn't necessarily mean that you can bend a spoon. It's really that there's a gritty determination just to get up one more time when you get knocked down, perhaps when other people not so resilient are likely to give up. So it's really interesting that the word superpowers has come out from totally unconnected people, but actually superpowers doesn't necessarily mean an actual superpower. It could be something more down-to-earth of just getting up one more time and putting your foot forward and going again.
There was a massive emphasis on personal development and growth, actually. In fact, throughout both the panel discussions, and if you listen carefully, most of the first people who we spoke to, the solo interview people that we spoke to, talked about personal development and growth but in a more subtle way, I guess. There was a stress on purpose, legacy, and this big vision and how it can keep you going and how it can be a motivator.
There was actually just a little bit, couple of sidebar points about forced reflection, when things happen to us and we have to take a little bit of time out and have a little rethink or reflection on what's happened to us and then decide to go again. And interestingly, I think it was Sven who made that point. He has decided to go again and he's picking up and he's pushing on again now.
There was another point that came out in this discussion, this sort of second-steppers discussion about looking beyond ourselves. It's not all about the money. In fact, that came out with other people, the idea of sufficiency, the idea of giving back and supporting others, being grateful and that sort of thing. So it's not all about the money. The money helps. The money's good and it helps us to help other people, for that matter.
But it's also looking beyond ourselves. We might start out perhaps a little bit self-interested, if I can use that phrase rather than selfish, self-interested, but then as we progress and become more full-time in this business, we start to lift our eyes to the horizon and scan the landscape, if you like, and look for opportunities to help and support other people and other causes.
And then there was this dichotomy, if you like, focused between the, well, actually focus was the one, focus on the one hand and being flexible on the other hand. And I use a phrase quite often about fix and flex. So fix is the focus and flex is being flexible. And it's kind of weird because you kind of need to set a course, set a direction, but it will change. But if you don't fix the course, then you're all over the place, but it will change. So it's striking this balance. It's like being on a seesaw that's constantly moving up and down and you just need to straddle the thing as we go there.
There was a lot of talk in this particular group about surrounding ourselves with other people in mastermind groups and apprentice programs, in networking groups, and just really immersing ourselves into community because it gets tough at times.
There was some talk about de-risking the journey and that came out in a number of different ways. Having diversification and multiple streams or multiple sources of income was definitely something we spoke about. Perhaps not quitting the day job or having a part-time job or having a partner who's still in a job or having savings is a way to de-risk going full-time in property, as well. So, that's something else that came out, too. And in terms of one of the character traits, being an optimistic problem solver, that was one of the final points I noted there.
So we're getting towards the end now. So, the next panel discussion, if you like, was with what I call the new adventurers, so we have Nana Piesie, Martin Evans, Silvana Spada, David Masters, Sion Thomas, and Dominick Hardy. And again, apologies if I got your name wrong there. I do apologize.
And I think the first thing to say that came out there is things don't always move as quickly as you want them to. So this is the new adventurers, remember. So they're looking to go full-time. Some actually already are, and some are looking to do that. And so there needs to be a bit of, they talk about being adaptable and being flexible. Here we go, that phrase again, being flexible, but working long hours.
They were all working long hours. So even if they're full-time in property, they were working long hours. If they had a full-time job, they were still doing it, had a side hustle. They were working after hours on their property business. And you don't find that with the general public so these people are practicing delayed gratification. They're building a better future by working hard today.
And then I think it was Nana, she said, "If I don't do it, then who's going to do it for me?" Yep. There's no gifts. There's no sort of silver platter that's handed out here. We need to go out and seize it for ourselves, that's for sure.
There was quite a lot of talk in this panel actually about organization, productivity, managing time, being efficient, effective, and being productive with our time. And it was a little bit surprising in some ways, because we're suddenly talking about CRM systems and things like that, but it's about getting it right from the beginning so that it releases time, which frees up headspace, which also frees up resources to focus on income generating tasks. So it makes a lot of sense, in fairness, that we talked about systems and being effective and being productive.
Quite a lot of conversation about education, but education can come in many forms. It doesn't have to be formal education. It doesn't have to be paid for training. It could be things like books, podcasts, and YouTube videos, for example. But there was a lot of talk about education that came out of it, as indeed there was again about networking and community, which can help with our motivation because we perhaps need a bit of accountability and sometimes a little bit of support as well. So, having a community around us can help keep us going, propel the momentum, as well as also help with the learning that we've just been talking about.
I mentioned it's not all about the money and there was a lot of talk about giving back, random acts of kindness, and indeed gratitude for what we have already. So, that came out in this conversation. Again, I know that pretty much everyone in this community thinks in a similar way. That's part of the reason that they're guests actually on this particular series.
And we talked again about systemizing, but then we talked about perhaps the Holy Grail of being in finance, being in finance, sorry, being in property is attracting finance and joint venture partners or private financing seems to be this Holy Grail. Particularly if you've got an idea of being full-time in property, because financing is a finite resource. It's limited unless you're fortunate enough to have an inheritance or something like that. We're all going to run out of money at some point.
In this particular group, we talked about a couple of different ways of doing that. One was what's called attraction marketing and that's sort of sharing our story, sharing our vision, and that will attract people to us. Being who we are, being authentic, talking about our values, talking about our beliefs, that will attract certain people towards us.
But in addition to that sort of more softer side, there was the hard side of developing a track record. And this is the idea that Rupal was talking about earlier that momentum kicks in, but it takes some time to overcome that inertia. You don't get a track record overnight. It takes time. So we have to be beavering away to develop that track record. But in the meantime, sharing the story, sharing the vision, and we've got two sides of the same coin in that sense.
I asked the question about, "Do we need a big bag of swag?" If you remember, it was only a few weeks ago. And Nana says, "It depends." And he's quite right to say that. So property is quite a cash intensive business. We need a lot of startup capital and perhaps even working capital, especially if we're going to go full-time in property. So it can be cash intensive or finance heavy, but there's alternative strategies and there's creative strategies as well.
So we had flavors, all types of flavors of property strategy. That was one of the things I wanted to highlight and showcase throughout this series. There wasn't just a one way of doing things or you need a load of money to start. There were alternative strategies, creative strategies, and the utilization, if you like, of other people's money and leverage in different ways.
We talked a little bit about deal sourcing and this side hustle of multiple income streams and how one, we can earn an income from deal sourcing, but equally we can put ourselves in front of certain people. It could be vendors and agents on the supply side, but it could also be clients and potential investors on the demand side. So that will create opportunities, both sides of that supply and demand equation of course.
There was a lot of talk again about it can take longer than you expect, but make the jump sooner rather than later. Don't delay because delay can cost you. We covered that ground quite a few times, as well. And there's a lot of fear perhaps, or there's some overwhelm that we need to overcome, even limiting beliefs and limited resources. So it's a journey, like what was it Kemi said about we have to become what we need to become. So it's a journey. So we need to step out, overcome the overwhelm, overcome the limiting beliefs and it takes time. It's a process and we need to shed some of that. And it just takes time.
But surround yourself with the right people. Have the right kind of input coming into our brains to sort of turn that around, if you like, de-condition ourselves, if you like, in that sense. So, be bold and step out and be bold sooner, rather than later.
There was also talk about knowing ourselves. And I'm really big on this. I think we need to understand ourselves as well as understanding others, but we start with understanding ourselves. And that's one, how do we think? And what are our values? And what's important to us in life, but it's also things like our own bodies and our rhythm, if you like. Martin talks about he tried desperately to get into the 5:00 AM club but it just isn't him. So he listened to his body and he's just adjusted and now he's just in a much better place because the 5:00 AM club isn't for everyone.
And, of course, making plans and learning is all very well, but actually taking action is where it's at was something that came out of this part of the discussion, but indeed, in other discussions as well. Systemizing came up again as did due diligence, so a number of points there.
And I guess if I could just try and wrap it up, I noted there were sort of, if I look back over the series, 18 guests, 13 episodes over however many weeks that was, probably 13 weeks actually. There were about 15 common threads or elements. I'm just going to summarize them quickly now before we close.
So one was goals. Lots of people spoke about goals. Have them written, have a plan, know that they will change, but have them there in front of us to have something to aim at. And indeed, wider than that almost is purpose. So we have goals on the one hand, but we have purpose on another.
So purpose captures things like our destiny, legacy, vision, if you like. So goals are very specific and measurable, but purpose is the overall direction, why we're here, what we're doing this for, our reason why, in other words.
And then there was mindset. There was quite a lot of talk about mindset, self-belief, motivation, mindset shifts. It's a really important factor of being full-time in property, as indeed is knowing ourselves, we've just been talking about it. There are certain character traits you've probably been picking up as we've been going through this. I'm going to come on to superpowers, but there were a number of character traits, for example, being solution orientated, but listening to our bodies as well as our thoughts and our mind and knowing our values. So knowing ourselves goes beyond just headspace, if you like. It's beyond that.
I can't resist mentioning the superpowers thing again, because it was brought up on several occasions. But actually a superpower is really gritty determination, perseverance, and hard work in many cases. So it doesn't necessarily have to be this extraordinary thing, although actually practicing it is extraordinary at times.
There was a lot of shout-outs towards systems, having systems, processes, being able to set priorities and being productive with our time. That came out quite consistently, as well.
As did having a safety net, which is the seventh item here, which is often having a side hustle or multiple income streams or a partner that's earning or having a savings runway because things can get hard and you don't want to run out of money too soon. You have to strike this balance between stepping out, but having a safety net to fall back on as well. So it's a delicate balance. And in fact, yeah, safety net is the headline there.
Start now. Yeah, pretty much everyone is saying start as soon as you possibly can. Don't worry too much about not necessarily knowing exactly the destination. I do encourage people to try and know what the destination is, but don't worry about it because it's probably going to flex along the way. So it's good to set a course, but then once we move partway down the pathway, it will probably change, but start as soon as possible.
And then I talked about my own case four years cost me 2 million pounds. So yeah, that was expensive, four year delay between deciding and acting in property.
A few people talked about it's something beyond ourselves. It's not all about the money. The idea of sufficiency, enough being enough, giving back and supporting others came out a few times, as indeed the idea of thanks and sacrifice, with gratitude, delayed gratification and other principles like that.
And then I guess there was the idea of community, surrounding ourselves with other people who can have a positive and supportive impact on us, whether it's a masterminding group or a buddy or a networking group, just having community that we can immerse ourselves in because it can get hard at times. So having that support and accountability, the softer support, the higher accountability can really help.
There was a lot of talk about growth, particularly personal growth and business development, if you like. Most people are into some kind of personal development, whether it's reading or formal training or study, just kind of learning about themselves and growing and developing. We have to become what we need to become.
The idea of leverage, not just money, so Buy-to-Let mortgages and things like that, but also non-financial strategies, as well, can get us there, leveraging the networks, leveraging our knowledge and contacts. Lots of forms of leverage was mentioned either directly or in passing.
In terms of strategies, I was going to list all the different strategies that people were pursuing, but it was just going to be probably another list of about 15 so I decided not to. So, there was multiple strategies that people are following. The one that I meant to have a guest or I did actually have a guest lined up who was a much more passive private investor and I wanted to showcase that as another angle, but there was elements of that in some bits that other people are doing, so Rich and Ian, for example, are both now investing other people's projects. So you might've picked that up through them, but in terms of strategies, anything goes really.
And I guess the final point probably would be the definition of true wealth. Well, the definition of true wealth lies in the eyes of the beholder. So it's what's true wealth to you. So it isn't necessarily all about the money, although the money helps and, of course, it helps us to help other people, too. But there was I think right at the beginning Ian talked about true wealth is time freedom for him and for other people it's choice and for other people it's independence. So it's this financial safety net. It's just the freedom to choose and to do what you want to do when you want to do it and who you want to do it with.
So there we go. I think that's probably as far as I want to go in terms of a wrap up. I hope it's been interesting and useful over the last few weeks. Hope you got something out to this particular series. And yeah.
I guess all that remains to say is that the show notes are going to be over at the website, thepropertyvoice.net. If you want to talk to me about anything from the series or just generally about property you know you can always email me podcast@thepropertyvoice.net. I'd be delighted to hear from you.
I'm just going to put a bit of a marker out there. I'm going to take a bit of a timeout now. We're in sort of early to mid-August. This will go out, I'm trying to think when it will go out, round about the 12th of August, Wednesday, the 12th of August. And I'm probably going to take the rest of August off. So there won't be any more podcasts for the rest of August.
There might be a sneaky one or two, which are kind of either third party recordings that I'll share or something I already had prepared, but essentially it's not going to be any, and I'm not going to come on and make an effort over the next few weeks. I'm just going to take a little bit of time out, go on a social media diet, just put my feet up a bit and just kind of recharge in that sense. So join me again in early September. I'd be delighted to have you back. Thanks for listening as always. And yeah, I think until next time on the Property Voice podcast, it's ciao-ciao.
That's all from me this week, remember if you want to talk about anything from today’s show, or just talk property investing more generally, email me at podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, I would be happy to hear from you! The show notes can be found at our website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thanks very much for listening again this week, so all that left to say is ciao ciao!