Today we share part two of a panel discussion with some ‘new adventurers’ or people really just at the beginning of their journey, with an intention to go full time in property.
We're joined again by Nana, Martin, Silvana, David, Sion, and Dominick.
This time, we discuss property education and communities, purpose and motivation, raising funds...or not necessarily, and some practical tips and advice for those looking to follow in their footsteps.
We are nearing the end of this series now, so have a listen (or a watch) as we continue to dive into the topic of the reality of going full time in property.
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Resources mentioned
Contact our guest panellists:
Nana Piesie Email address, Business Facebook Page, Private Facebook, Linkedin, Instagram, Youtube, Website
David Masters Email address and Linkedin
Silvana Spada Email address and Linkedin
Martin Evans Email address and Facebook
Dominick Hardy Email address and Linkedin
Sion Thomas Email address, Facebook and Website
Link to The Property Voice YouTube Video
The Property Voice Meetup Page & Eventbrite Page
How to Reach Richard By Telephone
Link to the Podcast feedback survey
TPV Apprentice Programme info HERE
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Transcription of the show
Today we share part two of a panel discussion with some ‘new adventurers’ or people really just at the beginning of their journey, with an intention to go full time in property.
We're joined again by Nana, Martin, Silvana, David, Sion, and Dominick.
This time, we discuss property education and communities, purpose and motivation, raising funds...or not necessarily, and some practical tips and advice for those looking to follow in their footsteps.
We are nearing the end of this series now, so have a listen (or a watch) as we continue to dive into the topic of the reality of going full time in property.
Property Chatter
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Property Voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown, and, as always, it's a pleasure to have you join me on the show today.
Well, we're getting towards the end of this series now. I'm feeling a little bit sad, but we're getting towards the end. We've got the second part of the conversation I had with the newbies or the new adventurers, I think we're going to call them, that I'm going to share with you in a moment, and then we'll probably do a wrap-up next week. So, getting towards the end of the Going Full-Time in Property series.
By the way, I've had a few people reach out to me and ask to appear on this series. Apologies if we haven't come back to you with open arms, saying, "Yes, come along and share." It's been very deliberate that the people who've appeared on this series are people I already know, they're in my inner circle or in my network or community in some way, that I know pretty well. It was deliberate, so don't be offended if you're one of those people who's reached out to us. I really appreciate you reaching out to us, but I just wanted it to be a certain flavor, and I'll perhaps come back to that.
So, let's have a listen now to the second half of the conversation with the new adventurers where we've got Nana, Silvana, David, Sion, and Martin, and perhaps I'll do a bit of a wrap-up in a few minutes.
Thank you.
Somebody would pay you a fee for a deal could potentially become a partner on another deal.
Here we are guys and gals, part two of this episode on going Full-Time in Property with the early stages. So we left off last time talking about some of the outsourcing... tools that we're using. There's a bit of background shuffle noise there just keep control of that, thank you.
Yes, so we left off there. It was a really good conversation and equally I think I remember, I think it was Nana, you in particular talked about education in the first part. And I wanted to come back to that and maybe broaden the conversation. So there's a lot to learn, wouldn't you say? So Nana, will you just kick us off then as I'm referring back to you? What have you done to educate yourself? How have you gone about things in terms of property at least?
So what I first did was to read books and listen to you and other podcasts. And after that I went on a, that is a course, three hours free seminar, and I went to it. And then I bought the three days event. And from there I went to mentorship and I just keeped on learning, connecting with people so I always get educated. Because like I said before it's, I'm not from the UK so it's even more important for me to learn and understand how things go in the UK.
So you've done a bit of what I'd call sort of formal training and education presumably with some of the training providers, property training providers, from what you?
Yes, exactly, exactly.
That's interesting. What about everybody else, how have they gone about things? And you did talk about books and things and podcasts before, so thanks Nana, for the check there. It's how you get on this type of panel basically.
But so what about other people then, how have they gone about educating themselves from a property point of view?
I'd say very similar myself. It's just a lot of research, podcasts, there's YouTube videos, Plan F websites there's a lot of information out there that's mostly freely available, or inexpensively available. There's a lot of very expensive courses as well which probably don't add much above what you could learn yourself anyway. Yeah, but for myself it's just been podcasts, books and obviously working with yourself, Richard, just helped a lot. And mentorship as well I guess, is another thing that's out there.
Yeah, that's interesting, we can maybe come back to that. So does the media knowledge like books and podcasts and videos if you like and all the formal stuff which Nana talked about, you can't just take you into a slightly different area as well which is maybe mentorship or maybe even masterminding I suppose. And you also talked Nana, about network, so plugging into different people.
Yes, a property network event which I went to as well, as Nana touched on. That was helpful too. It, low entry fee I think it was 20 pounds. Go to network event, we had this presentation one night and then you can actually talk to people, meet people and learn from that experience as well. So learning from others.
And what about confidence so is it similar or have some of those people done something a little bit different?
I would say, I think the saying, "You've got to love what you do to be successful at it." I wouldn't say is necessarily true but I think you need to have some kind of passion towards property because there's so much to learn. Especially when you're just starting out. There's the smaller details to the larger details. There's loads to learn. It takes a lot of time.
I spent most of my time just listening, like most people, to podcasts and reading books and not forgetting YouTube videos as well. Probably one of my favorite ways to learn things is YouTube videos. They probably don't have as much detail as maybe an audio book or a podcast but they're visually more entertaining.
And also just, especially now I've kind of come full-time in property, learning by doing so. When I first started I was, I'm not typically a shy person but I feel sometimes out of my comfort zone if I've not done something before and don't have a lot of knowledge in it. For example, I don't really know anything about building. I have to get a handyman just to fit my washing machine. I'm not the most, the handy person. So speaking to builders and electricians, at first I was a bit apprehensive but once you've got these people that you trust, then you're okay to just ask them questions. They don't mind explaining.
So that's something I've kind of learned in terms of property, is you don't have to necessarily be apprehensive, and in some areas just be honest, be yourself. Not necessarily knowledge learning but it's yeah, development learning.
I think so. I think you make some really good distinctions. I mean, let's go back to what you said about YouTube videos, for example you could, we're in a multi-media age and in fact one of, the second book I wrote, there's a whole chapter about learning and prop tech in learning. But I was talking about learning styles quite a lot. And not everybody gets on with reading a book for example. So it's just words, reading words. Some people find it better to listen, some people prefer to sit see or view things. Other people like to touch and feel, get amongst it. A lot of people like to converse with other people. So there's lots of different learning styles. But equally there's lots of different learning methods that are available. So I'm really intrigued that you're mentioning some different things.
Especially when you're bringing up that last one about asking questions about people who're in the trade. And having the courage, if you like, to ask those questions. Maybe you'll fit your own washing machine next time, who knows? Because of questions you asked along the way.
Any other addition on that point? Have we covered most of the bases on knowledge and education?
Yeah Richard, the apprenticeship was very helpful for me because obviously I didn't know anything about property business investment. All the terminology and everything. There is a lot to know and there is a lot of stuff and you've been very helpful with your apprenticeship and all material that you sent to me. And also the mastermind group is a very good point where to be.
Because if you need anything, I've seen there is a lot of stuff that the people are willing to share with other people, that can make you better than what you are. And yeah, it's very helpful. But from books and everything and webinars and other stuff. But I think that it's very important to be surrounded by people in your same situation, that they need the same type of information. And they're going forward, they're doing your, I don't know if the same journey or something different but the same kind of business.
Nice, really interesting you say about the, in fact all of you in one way or another, or many of you in one way or another, talked about learning from network, through asking questions of other people. Formal mentorship and masterminding. So that's kind of what I call community learning in a way. It's just reaching out and bringing in the inner knowledge from other people perhaps not so structured, like laid down in a book or a course.
So would you say that's an important factor made in the journey of being, perhaps especially from the perspective of going full-time property in property?
Yes, it is very important because sometimes you feel a little bit lost, kind of, yeah? So you need to, you need that kind of support. The people that are in your same situation maybe not exactly the same journey but in your similar situation. So you can find a device for it and you can find answers to your questions basically.
Yeah I completely agree. I would say also the mastermind doesn't be in part of any type of, doesn't have to even necessarily be a mastermind but a group of people that all share the same objective or goal, is massively important in terms of, I mean, there's been a few times where I've gone off track a little bit and fell behind in my visions and goals but having support around me, in terms of the mastermind and especially you Richard, has kept me on track and that is vital because people sometimes fall behind and don't necessarily keep up with what they've promised themselves that they're going to keep up with. But having that, what's the word, Richard? The accountability around you, is yeah, vital in my opinion.
Yeah, I mean I just, we're all together on this call and we're all kind of talking the same language. We've got a similar vision which is kind of bettering our lives through putting ourselves out there into property etcetera. But if you look outside of this group, if you look into the wider world, do you see the same or do you see something different? Is everyone into developing themselves? Is everyone into preparing, you know building a future for themselves that they can take control of?
I don't see, the majority of people just go and do their nine to five and they wait for the weekend to happen. Then the week after that they wait for Christmas, they wait for holiday, so they don't have a purpose. The only thing I can say is when people are very committed to training, so maybe they go and CrossFit or they go to the gym every day and they eat. Those types of things, they're very committed and have a vision for. But besides that, no, not in my environment.
I think David, it's probably good to key you in as well here because I know you're retired now from competitive sport. But wouldn't you say there's some parallels even to what you're doing in that environment to what you need to do to be successful in this environment?
Yeah, there's definitely transferable elements. I think they've all been sort of identified really here. And I think the key one is the community. Is regardless of what kind of line you want to go, whether it's in property or not, you've got to surround yourself with like-minded people who want to, A, push you and also make you accountable. There's no way in any sport people can just do it on themselves. They have a coach, they have a team, they have a background team. You know fit, there's a whole, and they have their training partners, everyone. Even in individual sports there's a wide team behind, family, friends, teams what's obviously, there's a group of people.
So it's, I think in any walk of life where someone has a vision, has a purpose of something that they want to aspire to, that is one of the fundamentals, is having that community around them as mentor, coach, a group of like-minded peers, friends. It doesn't really matter, it's trying to get that exert because it always gets tough at some point. And that's the thing, one of the key things is, you'll know if you've got your purpose right if you can go through those kind of tough points, those real low points and you come out the other side and it's, you're more hungry, you're more determined than ever to achieve it. And I think that's, yeah other groups said that's key, is the network.
I mean that's interesting because I think that really leads me into talking about, a bit about motivation and purpose. You made the point really well there David, to be honest. It sounds to me like every one of you has got some kind of vision or purpose or goal, whichever language you want to use. Something you're aspiring to and then something that makes you get up or, and put the hours in and hustle on the side, which is kind of motivation.
But equally we sometimes slip a little bit, don't we? And Martin, you even said that it's good to have the group around you at times so you've got support and accountability to help when that motivation wanes. Because motivation is a feeling actually. And so, I don't know what you guys think, so how do you keep going? Or how do you focus on the prize, if you like? Is that actually what you do, in fact?
Please Nana, you don't need permission.
So before I yes... my fiance and my daughter and that was just my motivation but now I've started to, I've bought a book for my 34th birthday, it was a present. So it's a diary, it's a six month diary. So three minutes in the morning, three minutes in the evening, I write down what I'm grateful for, three things. And positive affirmation and what will do the day great today.
So then in the end of the day I just write down the, whatever happened. And then it's a weekly and a monthly update. And then there's, what's the word that I'm looking in English, quest, come on, quest, favor do a favor.
Oh yeah. Like a run to [crosstalk 00:16:10] or something?
Yeah, every day I need to do a good will, good deed.
Yeah.
That's how I can measure it. Otherwise it's just looking at them, I just want to spend more time with them and just travel all around the world. Like you, Richard.
Can't travel anywhere at the moment. I was actually looking at a calendar appointment for one of our team leaders recently and it was, the date was going to clash with me flying to Tokyo to go to the Olympics this year. But guess what?
Yeah, so lockdown is kind of making me a little bit itchy. I'd like to go and see those Northern Lights that you've got behind you as well, so.
But so you've talked about personal discipline there, which would be like the journal thing or the diary to help keep you motivated and just keep you reflective and grateful. Some of you have talked about having people around you, whether it's a formal mastermind group or just people that you can lean on. Has anyone just in terms of vision, has anyone got something they want to share which is perhaps not, "I want to earn enough to quit my job." Has anyone got something that maybe is even beyond that, that they want to, and happy to share?
Yes so, sorry.
I was looking at you, it's hard to tell on a Zoom call, I know. But I was.
You're to my left so. I think for me I have the vision of essentially setting up a foundation to support athletes. Having been one, having seen how hard that road is to really make it. It's just something that I'm very passionate about. So for me I want to try and yes, earn an income, earn a living through Full-Time Property. But the greater vision is to actually then try and give back and inspire and help others make it through sport. But also, that potentially if it's a foundation there could potentially be other avenues that that can help support people. Maybe that's a way into property? I don't know.
But it's, that's the thing that's been quite a burning passion ever since we actually talked about that a few, a couple of years ago now. So I think that's really mine.
Does that keep you going?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean during this crisis at the moment, obviously there're a lot of other pressing matters, immediate matters. But I think for me there's still a burning desire to help people and to help others. I know sport for me is just that way that, I've had that all my life and I continue to have that all, throughout the rest of my life hopefully. And I'd like to give back, so the way that I plan to do that is I'm not going to be able to do that through my nine to five job. I mean, it will just take years to, and this is not something I'm wanting to do. So I think that gets me going in terms of, that's my ultimate goal and then I try and work it back from there into how that can be achieved.
Thanks for sharing that. I think, and I wasn't trying to single you out but I know you have a big vision and require quite a big fund to make that foundation work. We've talked about it before a few times.
Yeah.
But it was more this idea. So we've had, Nana mentioned about random acts of kindness for example. You talk about giving back and there's a bigger purpose perhaps, a bit beyond ourselves. So I think initially when we started this business we're perhaps a little bit more, me-focused, or us-focused but actually as you can imagine it, it's like going up a mountain, that you go up at different levels. And you have a different vantage point once you're at the bottom to maybe one level up. And then things can change for you and then you can see another level and things can change again.
I don't know if anyone's already had that experience? Has anything happened, do you know a game changing moment, aha moment, since you've been full-time well, not full-time in property but working in property? Has anybody had that kind of wow, this is it, this is what I need to do and I'm going to change these things? Maybe not?
Mine is probably, I spoke about it before but mine was probably figuring out the benefits of a CRM system and figuring that out early on in the business as well. There's a lot of people that have already flourished in businesses but are going crazy with trying to keep up to date with things and loads of pieces of paper scattered around. But if you'd learned the benefits of a CRM system early on in the stage of your business then it will, you can take that knowledge throughout your business and it will just make things so much more fluid.
I can talk about CRM's for ages and I've already bored a lot of people with it but look into Podio, if you've not already. Awesome!
Or maybe just ask you. So it's interesting because I started that piece by talking about a big vision or goal and rightly Martin, you've answered in terms of making the business you have got, work much more effectively. In your case by looking at systemizing and specifically a CRM system.
So it doesn't have to be this big vision game changer it can be just something that you've stumbled across or realized as you've gone along. So I don't know if anybody else has got anything more down to earth perhaps than the Northern Lights that's funny.
My aha moment was when I went to the UK, when we were at the property network. We were at this 10X Super Conference and the people that I had listened to podcasts and maybe saw on Instagram and I'm not a shy guy so I just went straight forward to him and they were so open. They were like a book. That was my aha moment because it was, okay this industry, people are so helpful. You can ask them almost everything and they will try to help you. They will even maybe give you a contact so you can use their contact etcetera.
Let's say if you're in the cloth industry, if you go to H&M and ask them there, "Who's your factory supplier?" they will say, "No." But the property business it's totally different. So that was my aha moment when I, last year when we were in London at Super Conference.
That's really interesting. You're right, I think this community is quite sharing, quite giving. Willing to share things around. So that's a good one.
Unless there's any more on that particular point. I wanted to talk about what I call the big three of resources, which is time, money and know-how. Now, to some extent we've spoken a bit about time in the earlier part, certainly in part one. We've talked about knowledge and education. So I think we've done two out of the big three. So it leaves one which is, and I guess my leading question is, have you all got a big bag of swag? Cash lying around to invest in property or is that something that perhaps is still a work in progress for you?
Work in progress, I think.
Work in progress.
And so.
It depends.
Come on then. So work in progress for some and depends, for others. So help me out here. Why is it a work in progress, what are you doing? What is the work that you're doing for the work in progress answers, and we'll come back to Nana's point about, "It depends."
To build a big bag of swag. Mainly the day job.
Probably not the best analogy I know, but yeah.
To build an investment part that may be used to finance properties yes, I guess mostly the day job and looking for JV partners primarily. So be lucky enough to be able to find two. So purchased a couple of properties with those or, three properties in total with two JV partners. Probably will be looking for another property with one of those JV partners as well, because that obviously helps. But then other than that, it's just savings really from my day job.
Yes, so you mentioned that you're in contracting and there's rumors that it's a well paid industry. But if you can set aside savings from your contracting, that's obviously going to help. You said you managed to find some JV partners? Were they hanging around on the street corner or did-
No, people I work with and family. So close friends and family. So I guess you hear people say to start there with family and friends and that's the route that I was lucky enough to be able to find a couple of JV partners that way.
And how did those conversations go?
I can't remember now really. I guess they went very smooth.
[crosstalk 00:26:57]I wasn't trying to sell I think, definitely not that. It just, compilation come about. I think with my first JV partner, a colleague of mine, I think he'd invested in some properties already anyway and I'd invested in a couple already and we just got talking and decided to invest in property together.
I was looking for a property, I can't remember the conversation now but I presume we just said, "Why don't we go halves?" basically and that was that. And then with my family member, my brother, he had some funds lying around in an ice surge swirling half percent, one percent something like that so, next to nothing, losing money after inflation. I'd invested in a few properties at that time and again it was just, "Why don't we invest in a property and rather than losing money, we can actually get more money coming in."
Sounds like some pretty good drive. For somebody who had an interest and somebody who perhaps wasn't getting any interest. Sounds good.
David, you also said, "Work in progress." How are you approaching it, what's your angle?
So on the money side it's, I guess because the nature of, having come from uni, starting at work, so I'm just trying to save at the moment. But obviously that doesn't come in fast enough to hit all of these ambitions. So there're a few different angles, the first one is to, sourcing that helps that accelerates and provides another income stream. The second is start sharing what I'm trying to do, the ambition, the goals, so maybe not right now but in the future bring JV partners in. And those JV partners may be people I know now, they may be people I some time in the future. Or figure out a network event. So just trying to share the story and where I'm going.
And I think really just looking at all the possible ways of doing deals and learning new ways of doing deals when money is not necessarily something that I have in heaps on the side of my bed. So it's part of education, becoming smarter with savings for sure. And being financially very aware. And then also just sharing, trying to share the story, the purpose, what's going on, the business idea. And seeing potentially if there are investors that would invest.
Is that more of a case of, tell the story and it's like attraction almost, to be drawn to?
Yeah.
Interesting. I'm conscious that Sion and Silvana have been a little bit quiet so I'm just getting you ready, maybe if you want to, to join in the conversation a bit. But whilst I just said that you can have a little think, Nana did say something, and you said something like, what did you say? "It depends." What did you mean?
What I meant was it all depends what type of strategy you're going to do, in my mind. So if you're just going to focus on rent to rent, then you don't need to have a lot of money. But if you're going to do maybe, I don't know, HMO's and bigger stuff, then you need to have some more money, I guess. Even if you bridge and etcetera. So it all depends.
On the topic of rent to rent there for example, so what would you say would be, if any, a typical amount of money you might need to get involved in one of your rent to rent transactions?
I think, okay so we're from abroad obviously. So we have put a standard in that we will get the money back in nine months. So that's our standard but what we've been taught from the UK, it should be six months before you get all of your investment back.
And what is the investment, is it like furniture and things like that?
Yeah, furniture, paint-
Not refresh or refurb?
Light refurb. It should maybe cost maximum around 5000, tops.
Recovery in six to nine months, depending?
Yeah.
And then what sort of contract length are you normally getting, does it vary or?
If it's not five, we're not taking it. So it needs to be five because the first year basically will go, break-even if we're lucky, not lucky but yeah, it will break-even because you need to get the tenants in and etcetera and la, la, la and then you have two years left, if you just do three years. So that's why we try to get five years. So we have five years on the one we have, so.
And how do those conversations go, are they well received or are they quite tricky?
Do you mean the payment, or?
Well, no so you were talking to the owner of the property about potentially renting their property for say five years?
Yeah.
Very understanding, does it go, is it easy?
So this one that we have kept, we did a JV. So they did the talking and etcetera. But we had a SA before last year and there we had to speak with the owner. Because that was on our company. We were the management team. And yeah, the conversation was a bit, it was good from our, the contract was good but the owner was, he couldn't fulfill the contract. So we had to break it.
Oh I see okay, right. But that was SA, Serviced Accommodation?
Yeah, Serviced Accommodation exactly.
Interesting, I did threaten to bring you in, Silvana and Sion. Perhaps I'll start with Silvana because I know that you mentioned earlier about flips and was there a particular reason for that or have you got something else prepared, now I've made you think about it that, I don't want to throw a curve ball at you. In the area of financing, what would you like to share?
Yes, let's do the seven flips and we want to increase our capital because along the way we want to get goal is our portfolio. And when I started I said to Jago, "No, I don't want even thinking about HMO's than lease options. What is that? So I was really scared about that. But now I was thinking, even if they have not have lots of capital, HMO is a great way to have good cash flow and also the lease option is another way where you can basically, it will need lots of capital to start with. So yeah, I was considering those options as well and yeah, it's something that I wasn't even considering when I started and now it's growing on me.
I think you need to have the confidence, you need to obviously find the time to learn about these things. They're called creative strategies, are they?
Yeah. It's interesting to watch you. "I don't want to go anywhere near that." When we first started talking, into, "Hey, we can do a lease option on a HMO." You kind of, you've got more confident as you say as we've been talking. So it's good to see that change. So, yes, you can use creative strategies like rent to rent, like lease options that we've been speaking about. As you say, Nana, it depends, you don't always need a heavy sum of money.
Sion, I just want to bring you in and Martin, I'm not excluding you, so if you've got anything to add we can bring you in too. But Sion, on the topic of finances in property, one of the big resources, what's your approach? What's your view?
Yes, for myself it's also work in progress. I have obviously the rental income topped up with savings from my job. Then obviously the sourcing will add to that as well. And I guess really that the plan is to create a bit of a track record with the sourcing and then when we come across a really good deal then it will make the conversation much easier with a potential JV partner, if we can provide that track record with some deals that we've sourced.
And then, but I guess as a sourcing agent you're ideally placed for, as Silvana said, all sorts of different circumstances can arise from deals you find. You're not going to pass everyone onto an investor. It may be the case where the, another option would suit the vendor better in that way.
Yeah, I was wondering if you were going to talk about the sources ritual of not necessarily giving all the deals away to their client basin. And maybe try and find a way to secure, or cherry pick the best ones. But who, I don't want to say that. I'm sure that's not really going to happen, is it?
No, the client comes first.
It's going to happen, I know it's going to happen. Of course it does. That's why one of the benefits of you doing that, frankly. When you find that bluebird deal as they call them, then you can perhaps try and find a way to take it down. If you develop any relationships of your client base, perhaps somebody who will pay you a fee for a deal could potentially become a partner on another deal. So that all makes sense to me.
I maybe come back to you Sion, because I'm going to start thinking about some, moving towards wrapping up and what's changed and what you've learned and any tips. But before I do I just want to bring Martin in to see if he had anything to add potentially around the topic of financing in property. I know you touched on it earlier but is there anything else you wanted to add on this part, Martin?
No, Sion kind of said what I was going to say. I completely agree around the fact that if a deal is good enough I'm sure that I can find a JV partner or someone that has already the funds. There's a lot of people looking for this hands-off deal and I want to and I'm more than happy to, take it from beginning to the point of finding a tenant and a deal. So I'm sure that when the deal comes along, the right deal comes along, I'll be able to find someone that's looking for that hands-off investment.
So you're putting yourself out there. And you maybe try and take fees from passing deals. But maybe that bluebird one you can take all yourself potentially. So it's good. Thanks, Martin.
And so what I'm think about now is maybe start to think about getting towards the end of the episode. I want to start doing some wrap-up and so part of it is really, what have you learned along the way? What sort of tips might you have? And by the way you don't have to answer all three questions, I just want you to think about these things. What advice might you pass on to other people who might want to follow in your footsteps? And was there anything that nobody told you about and you think, "Blimey, I wish somebody told me that because that would have made the world of difference."
So it's in that sort of context, so feel free to answer as much of those probably, three questions that I've just asked you. And I'm going to start with you Sion, perhaps just because you weren't talking just now, so it makes sense.
So, I guess one big learning for me that I didn't really know about was from a personal view, that the setup of the sourcing company really and how much work actually goes into setting up compliantly. I mean you see all sorts of courses and adverts for mentors and they make it, they all make it sound easy but that was something that I massively underestimated. And it still took three times longer.
And I guess tips for anyone starting out, I'd say, "Make that jump and join some kind of group or mastermind program." And it doesn't have to cost the earth. There's plenty of free groups on social media that put up some really good content. And there's a real sort of group support there. So I'd say definitely get that group behind you in some way. It really helps, it gives you that accountability and I think you said before, it can get quite lonely on your own and it helps to have someone there to speak to, or others that are going through the same situation as you.
Great tips actually, to be honest. The sourcing compliance took three times longer than you expected it to. So you needed that support group to survive it, by the sound of it.
Yes.
Very good, thanks Sion. Who'd like to chip in next with maybe some tips, advice or learnings of realizations?
I would say, there's a lot of work that goes into working for yourself and that's not to be underestimated. But you also, I think what I've struggled with a lot is, there's loads of people that are talking about waking up early and working those 18 hour days and working off five hours sleep. If you can't function the next day there's no way it's going to happen. I tend to not wake up until around 9ish in the morning at the moment and I go to sleep at about one or two. I'm not a morning person at all. In the mornings I tend, I just drink coffee and casually look through emails. I've tried this waking up at 5:00 AM and it doesn't work for me.
And if you're also not that type of person, then I would say just listen to your body and I think that's probably, would be something that I've probably changed the most. Is not trying to do what these entrepreneur gurus, it's gurus, that's a weird word, isn't it? Not trying to do what they're telling you to do but just listen. Do what works for you.
Yeah. All right, that's great advice. Gurus. Yeah indeed, be yourself really. There's a, what's it called, I forgot what it's called now where you can actually do a test and work out your sleep pattern, your sleep style your, what your body clock, circadian rhythm.
Is it chronotype?
That's what it is yeah, chronotype yeah. There's a test actually you can do for that, so that might be handy. But you'll probably know if you're a morning person or not, which I think you probably do, Martin. Cool, who wants to go next?
I don't mind going next. So yeah, in terms of tips, so I would say just to start, start as soon as you can. Start early, take action. I started thinking about investing in property properly in about 2017, probably started 2018. So in two years time I think I've probably done quite a lot. Where's if I had started in 2012 I mean I just, where would I be now? Probably a lot further along. So definitely yeah, start as soon as you can. Just do some research, do some education, books, podcasts as we've talked about already.
I would also suggest to systemize where you can because that saves a lot of time later. Again, as we talk about time, is being as efficient with that as we can and also I'd say to set goals. Set goals, you know where you want to be next year or five years down the line. And then just review them and tweak as you go along. That would be my key tips for anybody.
Makes sense. Well, if you'd started in 2012 you'll be on the beach or wherever it was.
I wouldn't be here.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, very good lesson, start soon take action, amongst the other ones that you shared, thanks Dominick. Of the remaining three, anybody got something to offer here? Everyone's being so polite. You can just come off and talk.
Most of the ones that I was going to say have already been said. But I think the only one actually and it's what Martin said I think, earlier on today or tonight rather, is to not be afraid to ask questions. So people do want to help. People want to help others if they're hungry, if they want to learn. Don't be afraid to ask questions and try and be a sponge. Surround yourself with those people. And that's one of the key ones for me, really.
Great, thanks David. If anyone's got any burning ones, Nana, Silvana?
Yeah, I think you should, we were taught to the company that we can trust sources and etcetera but you need to check the person you're working with and thinking of working with because it's still a lot of money you're giving the person, even if it's a source or sourcing deal or JV or whatever. That type of amount of money you don't repayment in a day, I don't. So you need to do your due diligence. So people used to check how much you can save on a mobile phone but some people don't even check when they give someone maybe 50 000 pounds or 10 000 pounds and I don't understand that. But I don't know, that's my tip.
It's a good one, talk to Sion because he's got all the sourcing compliance nailed down, so he's all squeaky clean on that one. He spent three times as long to make sure he was as well. And Silvana, I know you're waving there, do you have one you wanted to add?
Yes, I wanted to say, don't do like I've done the last four, three years, so I kept my savings sleeping in the bank account doing nothing and yes, basically regretted that I didn't start earlier. And now I don't have the same savings unfortunately a little bit less but still. And now I want to do something with my life.
Well, there's the savings in the bank account for four years maybe but I don't know if I've told you before, there's going to be a certain person who's a guest on my own podcast coming up shortly, which actually will be in the past, by the time you listen to this but who talks about the four year delay.
I had a four year delay between starting, no deciding to start with property and actually buying my first series of properties. It was four years and that cost me two million in property value. So if I work out what I did in my first year versus what I missed out on in the four years. So that was quite expensive.
So yeah, I'm buying into, put your savings to work or start sooner as Dominick was saying. So that makes a lot of sense. Brilliant guys, so just thinking about the time. So what we'll probably do now is maybe invite any parting comment that you have and by the way if you haven't got one, that's okay. Maybe just name-check yourself and where can people connect with you, if you would like people to have your contact details. It can go around the room, will just be parting comment, obviously name and any contact details. Just give me a wave if that's not something you want to do and then we'll start to wrap up. Is that okay?
Okay so, should we start with the ladies this time and let Silvana go first? I think we should because we keep letting her go last, come on Silvana, why don't you kick us off.
So what should I say now?
Just say, if you're happy to share your contact details, how people could reach you if you wanted to and also if you got any parting comment at all, now is the time.
I think what I wanted to say I've said already this evening. My contact detail is not easy because those are my surname and give a surname @gmail.com. So it's spada.colerby@gmail.com If you have any questions you want to phone me, okay.
We can put them in the show notes, for sure. Martin, were you indicating to drop into the chats as well?
For the YouTube watchers we can put it in the description box below.
There you go. If it's easier to say, you can say it, otherwise we'll put it in the show notes or the YouTube commentary notes etcetera. So thanks, Silvana. Martin, you're in the chair I think, so why don't you carry on.
Yes sure, you can find me on Facebook, Martin Evans. If you're going to add me, just put max search beforehand. I get a lot of random requests or just email, probably the best, easiest one to remember is martin@theproxyvoice.net, you can use that one.
Why not? Why not indeed. Thanks, Martin. Anybody else want, parting comments or contact details? Nana come on, you're so polite. I'll put my hand up.
Yeah, Nana Pierce here our details, we have our Instagram page, Miracle On The Line Properties On The Line Ltd and Facebook, Miracle Properties Ltd and my name is Nana Pierce here on Facebook and if you want to email me it's just nana@miraclepropertiesltd.com.
Perfect.
I think that's all and I have a YouTube channel as well. Miracle Properties Ltd.
And your name is Nana Pierce, got you. Thanks, Nana. Who else wants to share their contacts or parting thoughts or both?
Yes, you can get me on Facebook, Sion Thomas and that's S-I-O-N Thomas or via email at sion@stpropservice.com or if anyone wants to take a look at the website, stpropservice.com. That's probably the best way, really.
Thanks, Sion. Flipping the coin between David and Dominick.
I'll go after you.
Okay thank you. Yes it's been a very good chat, so thanks very much Richard, for having us on. Good times, good fun. If anybody wants to reach me, I'm on LinkedIn, Dominick Hardy, D-O-M-I-N-I-C-K H-A-R-D-Y or via email at domhardy@eonproperties.co.uk. E-O-N properties, one word.
Thanks for the parting comment as well, kind thought. I really appreciate that. I'm going to have one mirrored in a minute but thanks for the contact details, Dominick. So, David?
I was going to say the same as Dominick, so yeah thanks for having us on. I've said everything that I was going to say, to share. In terms of contact details, email probably the best one is, davm44@gmail.com or LinkedIn, just David Masters. I have no idea how else do you find me, so it will be the LinkedIn and yeah that's it.
Thank you, well, we'll make sure that all the contact details are circulated. I'll ask for them from you again later so we can make sure we're all captured and correct spellings and things like that. Because sometimes I get that bit wrong, at my delicate age. Well, I just want to say, thank you actually. I think it's been brilliant. I did say can you compete with the guys and gals who shared last week, the second steppers, you haven't heard them yet but I think you can safely say, "Absolutely, yes."
I'm not quite sure who I'd say came out on top. I think it was really good quality shared both times to be honest. There's a lot of really, really great content here. I'm going to get the show notes transcribed as well, so you can read it if you don't want to listen to it or watch it. But yeah, brilliant, thanks so much, really enjoyed it. Thanks for sticking out for what is quite a long session as well. Good to get the Northern Lights, little backdrops as well, just to break the-
Thank you for having us. Thank you.
Absolutely welcome, thanks a lot guys and gals, have a good evening and we'll see you soon.
Well, that was a lot of fun, actually. I really enjoyed the conversation, not only this time with the new adventurers, last time with the second steppers, and, of course, prior to that, with a number of people; the individual guests that I had in the series.
Just picking up on this Part 2, if you like, with the second steppers, we covered a bit of ground there. We talked about education, we talked about purpose and motivation, we talked about financing, and we finished off with some tips and advice, if you like, to share. So, covered a lot of ground in the conversation, obviously, with five or six people on the call.
But maybe start with education. I think we covered most bases in terms of, let's say, what I called media knowledge; I referred to as media knowledge. That's books, podcasts, YouTube videos, and that sort of thing. It's typically free or low-cost content. There's obviously magazines as well. You could add into that forums as well. A lot of people were talking about that, that was a way in which they gathered knowledge, but there was also the more formal route, if you like, with training or mentorships and mastermind groups, that came out quite consistently as well. I think there were a couple of people who talked about joining groups which are not paid-for groups, or they're low cost groups, and indeed networking; perhaps there's a small charge to participate in.
Right at the end there, we started talking about learning by doing and also asking questions of other people who've come into the mix. So, hopefully you got the wide array of different ways that people in this grouping have gone about educating themselves there. There was a comment, of course, that there's a lot to know and a lot to learn as well, so it does pay, really, to stay on top of your education.
I think, on the softer side, if you like, there's the accountability and support that a couple of people mentioned. Sometimes it can get tough, sometimes it can be lonely, in fact, so being in a community can actually help you with your motivation. That really cued us in to talk about purpose and motivation and some of the ways in which some of the people on the call, some of the group here, were tackling that. A lot of people talked about having goals in different places, and David in particular had a big vision. I'm not saying nobody else had a big vision, but I kind of called him out because I wanted him to share. He talked about the big vision that he's got, which will probably take him several decades, actually, to achieve.
Really interestingly, a lot of people talked about giving back, random acts of kindness, and gratitude. You don't really hear that so often. Sometimes it can be a bit, "Me, me, me," so this idea of practicing gratitude and giving back in some way was good to see come out. Some hints and tips along the way like having a journal or keeping a diary might be handy too in that respect.
I asked about game-changing moments in that respect, and a little bit surprised to hear the answer because I probably had a preconceived idea of what it should be. But Martin came straight in there and talked about having a system, and in particular a CRM system. I know that Dominic echoed that with his advice that he gave towards the end. Systems: getting them bedded in early on because it frees up your time and gets you organized. It also frees up your headspace, and if you've freed up your headspace, then you can focus on what you're really after in terms of your big vision or purpose and goals. I thought it was really good.
Of course, Nana mentioned the point that property is a very open community. He was really surprised that he could go up to people that he'd seen, if you like, in the community, perhaps on YouTube videos or podcasts or things like that, and just speak to them and pretty much ask them anything and they'd tell you. So it is an open community and perhaps a little bit different to some other communities out there. Don't be afraid to ask, is the takeaway there.
I kind of talked about financing because we talked about knowledge, time, and financing as the big three resources, if you like. I wanted to talk and understand about whether people had a big bag of swag, as I called it, in our conversation. A lot of people said it was savings from their day job; creating additional income streams, perhaps through deal sourcing or other types of investor services; and a number of people actually talked about joint venture partnerships, as you heard. What was interesting, I think, about the joint venture partnerships, it's the Holy Grail: raising additional money beyond what we can raise ourselves is the Holy Grail to a lot of property investors and developers.
There was talk of telling the story. David talked about this, sharing his vision, telling his story, and, obviously, if people align to that, it will draw them towards him. That's what I call attraction. Attraction marketing, if you want, but you it's attraction. It's just being who you are and telling a story about your vision, and that will attract certain people towards you.
Then there was the other side of the coin, which, I think Sean mentioned, is developing a track record: being able to demonstrate experience, a track record, even if it's not directly doing your own deals but sourcing deals, decent-looking deals, and having a track record and showcasing experience. We've got two sides of the same coin there. We've got sharing the story, sharing the vision, and we've also got demonstrating your track record, which I thought was really interesting when it comes to joint venture partnerships.
The it-depends comment, which came up more than once, Nana brought it out there initially. When I said, "Do you need a big bag of swag?" Nana said, "It depends," and, really, we started a conversation about alternative strategies or creative strategies, is what I'm trying to say. He talked about rent to rent, Silvana talked about lease options, and Silvana also talked about flipping to be able to increase the capital fund so that it would grow and therefore enable more money to be left into another deal and to go again, et cetera. And, indeed, sourcing; deal sourcing itself. It puts you in front of certain people. It puts you in front of vendors, agents, on the supply side, but it also puts you in front of clients and potential investors on the demand side. I thought that was really interesting on the financing front, that there's a number of different ways of tackling that and it doesn't always mean you need a big bag of swag.
Towards the end, we concluded with some tips and advice, and there was a few people talked about it's hard and it can take longer than you expect. So just kind of being ready for that, really, but don't be afraid. Make the jump. A couple of people said, "Make the jump, but make it sooner rather than later, as well." So, if you're hesitant, don't hesitate any longer, people are telling you. I think Dominick in particular said if he'd have started back into 2012, he would already be retired by now. I don't think he was quite kicking himself, but I think he each just wished that he could've started before and then he would've been a lot further along the way by now, of course.
It's hard when you're stepping out, especially when you're talking about something like going full-time in property. There's a lot of fear, perhaps. There's a lot of overwhelm. There's a lot of limiting belief and there's also limiting resources. But there's ways around it, as you're probably gathering, actually, throughout this whole series of how people have tackled things. So step out, be bold, if you like, and make that move and do it sooner rather than later.
We talked about knowing ourselves, as well. Martin talked about listen to your body. I know Martin has tried to be in the 5 AM club on many occasion, but it's just not working out for him. But he's listening to his body: he's not a morning person, so he's altered his routine and that's working better for him. He can get a productive day, it just doesn't start at the same time as some people do.
I think taking action was another thing. Making plans and learning is all very well, but actually taking action is where it's at, so don't be afraid to do that. In fact, it's essential. Even if you get it wrong, it doesn't matter, it's still then part of your experience and you'll learn for the next time as well. That was really good.
Systemizing came up, and saving time and being productive came up, as well as setting goals. I kind of almost say those things like they're matter of fact, but they're not, really, and I think it is important to have all these things there. Don't be afraid to ask people questions, and check out who you're working with with some thorough due diligence as well, was another thing that came up there.
There was quite a lot of different things, and I was really pleased with the conversation over these two episodes from the new adventurers. As I mentioned, I introduced them in Part 1. Hopefully, all the contact details for all of the guests, Nana Sion, Silvana, David and Martin, are going to be in the show notes wherever you see them. You can watch this back on YouTube. You can listen to it, obviously. Well, you probably are listening to it right now. You can also read the transcript on The Property Voice website, even, if I could say it.
That's my cue, really, to direct you to the resources at thepropertyvoice.net. If you want to talk to me about anything regarding this show, this series, or even our guests, feel free to email me: podcast@thepropertyvoice.net. I'll be more than happy to hear from you. Do look up the guests, connect with them, talk to them, ask them questions. I think we can understand now that this is an open community, so do ask the question.
In fact, I had somebody reach out to me recently. He was talking about potentially mentoring with me, and he said, "Well, is it okay if I reach out to some of the people that you've interviewed and ask them about you?" I'm like, "Yeah, sure. No problem." That's it. These people have put their names out there, and feel free to do that and I ask them questions about what the reality is of going full-time in property, at an early stage as well.
That's it from me, I think, at this point. I'll probably return next week with some sort of series wrap-up, but I guess all that's left to say right now is thanks once again for listening to The Property Voice podcast and, until next time, it's ciao ciao.
Thank you for listening today. Not head over to thepropertyvoice.net for more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the Property Voice Podcast. And if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate us on iTunes.
That's all from me this week, remember if you want to talk about anything from today’s show, or just talk property investing more generally, email me at podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, I would be happy to hear from you! The show notes can be found at our website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thanks very much for listening again this week, so all that left to say is ciao ciao!