Today we share part one of a panel discussion with some ‘new adventurers’ or people really just at the beginning of their journey, but their clear intention is to go full time in property.
We're joined today by Nana, Martin, Silvana, David, Sion, and Dominick. I noticed actually that there's two of them that are already full time, so they've literally stepped out and they're just going to make a go of this right from day one. There's a couple who were more accidental landlords and have decided to extend that and try and make property a bit of a thing, if you like. Then, there's a couple of people who really are deliberately aiming to go full time in property, but it's very much a side hustle at the moment as there's a day job involved and they're going to come back to that later on.
There’s a bit of a different timeline with some of their goals, strategies and interests; so there's a little bit of something for everyone I think in this for all of us.
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Nana Piesie Email address, Business Facebook Page, Private Facebook, Linkedin, Instagram, Youtube, Website
David Masters Email address and Linkedin
Silvana Spada Email address and Linkedin
Martin Evans Email address and Facebook
Dominick Hardy Email address and Linkedin
Sion Thomas Email address, Facebook and Website
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Transcription of the show
Today we share part one of a panel discussion with some ‘new adventurers’ or people really just at the beginning of their journey, but their clear intention is to go full time in property.
We're joined today by Nana, Martin, Silvana, David, Sion, and Dominick. I noticed actually that there's two of them that are already full time, so they've literally stepped out and they're just going to make a go of this right from day one. There's a couple who were more accidental landlords and have decided to extend that and try and make property a bit of a thing, if you like. Then, there's a couple of people who really are deliberately aiming to go full time in property, but it's very much a side hustle at the moment as there's a day job involved and they're going to come back to that later on.
There’s a bit of a different timeline with some of their goals, strategies and interests; so there's a little bit of something for everyone I think in this for all of us.
Property Chatter
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Property Voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown, and as always, it's a pleasure to have you join me again on the show today.
We're still in the series going full time in property and obviously, you can see there's a bit of a pattern emerging. We've gone from people who are wanting to scale and already can live off the fruits let's say, of their efforts after some time and are working full time in property. And then we, over the last couple of weeks, we had a two parter. We've what I call the second steppers, so people who are a little bit down the pathway, but can't quite retire to the beach, but they're well on the way, which was obviously the last couple of weeks and these next two weeks, so part one will be this week and part two next week.
I had a panel discussion again with some new adventurers, I think I'm going to call them into property. So people really just sort of at the beginning of their journey, but their full intention is to go full time in property. As you're here, there's a bit of a different timeline with some of their goals and their interests, so there's a little bit of something for everyone I think in amongst us.
So we're joined today by Nana, Martin, Silvana, David, Sion, and Dominick. I was looking at ... I just listened back to that recording and I noticed actually that there's two of them that are already full time, so they've literally stepped out and they're just sort of going to make a go of this right from day one. And there were some interesting points there about developing multiple streams of income. As they're doing that.
There's a couple who were more accidental landlords and have decided to extend that and try and make it a bit of a thing, if you like. So they started out more accidentally, but they're trying to make it much more professional, much more deliberate going on. So there's a couple of people in that camp. And there's a couple of people who really are deliberately wanting to go full time in property, but it's very much a side hustle at the moment and there's a day job involved and they're going to come back to that later on.
So that's setting the scene, setting the context. So I'm just going to hand over now and you're going to hear the introductions in a little bit about part one and I'll perhaps come up and do a little bit of a summary in a few seconds.
Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Property Voice Podcast. I'm delighted to have you all with me on this special episode today. We've been running this series on going full-time in property. As I mentioned in the discussion before we started talking, some people are already well down that track, and can literally put their feet and sip piña coladas on the beach, but does that apply to you? By the way, could you put your feet up, sip piña coladas just yet through property? No? Okay, so we got the right-
Not yet.
Not yet? Well, we got the right group here, so that's... I like the style there, Martin. What we've got, last week we had what I call the second steppers. So that's people who have perhaps stepped out, to coin a phrase, and are a little bit down the track, but they're not quite at the end of the journey. What I thought I'd do on this particular episode is just collect people who are perhaps slightly more towards the beginning. You have just literally stepped out or have been trying to go full-time more permanently, if you like. So that's the audience that we've got, but less about me.
What I thought I'd do is just go around the room, so to speak, and let you introduce yourselves. I haven't necessarily got a roll call, so let's see how that goes, but if it's too much over talking, I might start selecting names, but who would like to go first and lead us off, and just tell us a little bit about themselves, what they were doing before property, and maybe how they got involved in property, and what they're doing now?
Should I go first?
I'll go then.
Oh, Sion's up.
Oh. Yeah, so I'm Sion Thomas, 38 years old, background before property is aerospace manufacturing. I was kind of the classic accidental landlord at first with one buy to let, which then led me onto buy another one seven years later, maybe six or seven years later, and it was at that point, really, that I sort of thought I better start taking this more seriously, and that's how I chose a path into property, really.
So it started as an accidental thing, but then you started to take it a little bit more seriously and more professionally, Sion. Is that right?
Yes. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Sounds great. All right. Well, thanks for introducing yourself. Welcome. Martin, you were eager to go as well at this. Let's get you out there. Come on. Let's share.
Okay. Yeah. Hi. My name is Martin. So before property I was living in Berlin, working at a cocktail bar, and I don't really know what kind of got me into property. I've been reading and kind of learning about property for probably around six years by now, just taking in as much information as I could find, and then I did the second Mastermind group of Richard's, and after that kind of had the confidence to come back to the U.K. to work full-time in property.
So is it true you were working in a cocktail bar when I first met you?
Yeah. I was thinking should I start singing, but I thought, "No. I won't do it to people."
It's not a karaoke bar. Cool. Welcome, Martin. Well, you made a big step. I know that. We'll probably get into that in a bit more detail, but thanks for the introduction. It's good to have you back in the U.K. as well. So who else is feeling brave enough to step out and tell us a little bit about themselves?
Happy to go next, Richard.
Yes, Dominick?
Yeah, so I'm Dominick. I'm 44 years old. I've been working in finance and IT financial really since I graduated way back in about 2000, so I've been working for banks and financial firms since then, although I've kind of always really wanted to work for myself. I bought my first property back in 2007, so that's my residential property, so I live there for five years. In 2012, luckily, I managed to save enough money to be able to buy another property without selling my first property, so I moved, and I rented the first property out. So again, just a classic kind of accidental landlord. Again, in 2017, I managed to save up enough money to buy another property.
So I knew property was a good longterm investment, so I purchased the property locally just purely then as an investment. I didn't really know what I was doing then because I didn't have much experience in property, so that was in 2017, and then I think about the same time my partner, she moved in with me as well, so we ended up renting her property out, so we had three properties then, and I think shortly after that it was kind of like a light bulb moment, I guess, where I figured that actually if I kind of get into this a bit more, kind of understand what I'm doing, I could probably make a living out of this.
So then, I decided to educate myself, I guess, and that's how I came across your podcast, Richard, and decided to make this a full-time endeavor, eventually.
Fantastic. Well, thanks, Dominick for that. Well, maybe I'll come back to where you are, and how you're doing things, but we'll pick that up in a sec, but thanks for the introduction. Appreciate that. Thanks for tuning into the podcast, as well. So we're down to the last three. Who wants to step out? Nana?
My name is Nana. I am 34 years old. I came into property because I wanted something passive. It all came as a light bulb when I was in LA, and the Hollywood sign was just wondering around, and thinking, "What should I do? I'm going to be a parent now, me and Mrs., and I don't want to work my whole life to get to the pension." So I have several businesses, but property was the main business that I thought I can excel, and the Mrs. liked it as well, so I went and educated myself. I listened to podcasts. Richard's, obviously. I contacted him, everything, and we started our company last year, so we have done some deals. Yeah. That's where we are today.
Fantastic. Well, I didn't know what to comment on most because, at one point, it went a little bit Dalek-like so I thought it was a bit of Dr. Who, but you were talking about making a decision to go into property at the Hollywood sign in LA. Is that right?
Yeah. I was hiking, so we were in LA three weeks or in California, and during those three weeks, I was just wondering, "What do I want to do with my life?" Because it's always when I'm on holiday that I start to reflect on my life what the past year I've done, and where I want to go, so yeah. I was hiking around. Should I do drop shipping? Should I do eCommerce or clothes, or property?" I was like, "Property is the ... because that's something that I like."
Fair enough. Well, the Daleks returned, so perhaps we'll come back to you in a second, and hopefully it clears up, but thanks for that elaboration. Another light bulb moment being mentioned. So we're down to two. Silvana or David.
I'm happy to go, Richard.
Come on then, David.
So yeah, so my name's David. I'm 26 years old, and so I guess my journey in property started back in 2016 when I graduated from university. My background historically was sport, very much sport focused. I used to tend to be quite competitive then, so that was my life then. When I kind of retired as it were from that scene, and went into the business world, I stepped into I guess the world of property working for property rated businesses, whether that was fintech-type business, a development business, funding-type business. It's all been in and around the property scope, the property sphere, and now, actually, I'm at a stage where I'd like to go full-time into property.
I have big ambitions, big hopes in going full-time into that world, and looking to go into the latter, as well as launch... Well, have launched a property business, so yeah. Right at the beginning of this journey.
Thanks, David. I like the way you say you retired there from competitive sport, presumably.
What's that? Sorry.
Was that from competitive sport? Yeah.
Yeah, so retired at the age of 22 from competitive sport.
A young man's game, is it? A young man's game.
Indeed it is, yeah.
Perhaps we'll come back to that because one of the things I want to talk about later, perhaps, is some of our motivations and our aspirations. I know a little bit of yours, but if you're up for it, perhaps we can come back to that.
Yeah, sure. No problem.
Cool. Thanks, David. So I guess, I don't know why nobody had the good manners to say, "Ladies first," Silvana, but maybe we saved the best until last. Who knows? So come on. Why don't you tell us about yourself?
Hi. My name is Silvana. I used to work as an accountant, and credit controller for big companies, like big American corporates. Back in December, I was considering my life and I was tired of living this life where you work for somebody else, and you consider yourself... You don't want to do this life forever. You don't want to retire doing this for basically spending the most better part of your life to work for somebody else. At some point, my husband was listening to Richard's podcast, and Richard was advertising the apprenticeship, and he came running back to me saying, "Why don't you attend this so you can work full-time in property? I can support you, and this can become your full-time job."
Because, obviously, the scope is to live out of passive income, and the only way is having a portfolio, and the final goal is to become financially free, and then live off passive income. That's the end goal, for me, and for us, for my family, basically.
Very good. I want to drill down a bit more into that. Thanks, Silvana. In terms of the motivations and aspirations, but there's something you said also, which I thought was really interesting because we got a mixture here. Haven't we? There's some of you are effectively already full-time in property, working in the field. Silvana, you just said that's exactly what you're doing. You stepped out and you're working, and aiming to make a go of working full-time in property, and making this a business or a career that you do all the time, but some of you still have a day job or a day business, and property is something that you're developing on the side.
So just quick straw poll. How many here are full-time in property now and this it? This is what you're making work? We're going to do a show of hands first of all, so a couple of you, and then the rest of you, so two out of six effectively have immersed themselves, dive full-time already into property, and the other four of you, I guess, it's more of a sideline interest. Is that right?
Yeah, correct.
Cool. Thanks for the audio.
I want to go full-time, but at the moment, sideline.
Yeah. So let's get into that then. No. Just before we do, the people who have gone full-time, so that's Martin and Silvana, what are you doing? What is the direction or the path that you've decided to take to throw yourself into the deep end, so to speak?
Silvana, you've decided straight. I started out planning to do sourcing full-time, but things don't always move as quick as you expect them to. Yeah. There have been multiple challenges. Maybe we'll get to that later. I don't know, but now I'm doing sourcing. I manage Richard's portfolio in terms of his rentals, and I also do a bit of a video editing for property videos, so there are different parts to how I'm making money at the moment. I am, essentially, full-time in property, but not necessarily full-time making money from my own business, but it's kind of what I've wanted to do for a while, even though it's not my own business.
I'm still working for someone else, but I'm in property, and also have time to do my own thing, so yeah. It's perfect for me right now.
Sounds good. I mean, it's interesting. Isn't it? Because you've got at least three components there you just rattled off. I always call that like having a portfolio career that you earn your income from multiple different sources that you kind of outlined. Is it always going to be the case that you'll kind of be like an income generating business or are you going to invest into assets, property assets as well?
So the longterm goal is to start developing developments of my own, and especially the fact that I'm working so close in terms of with people that are doing developments, and doing refurbs, and managing some sides of property that I can see that goal happening much quicker than I would have anticipated maybe a year ago, so that's the longterm goal, but it's kind of sourcing properties, and finding deals for investors is definitely a way that I want to save some money, and then reinvest it into my own deals.
Sounds good to me. Silvana, I know you went on mute there, but if you're brave enough to share with us what you're doing and the path you've taken, that would be great.
So basically, the strategy at the moment is to find a property to flip, and in the way I would like to learn more about data sourcing, like Martin, and also project managing the property that I am going to source as well. Yes. Things are moving quickly, as you expect, but I know that this period is now this is because of the virus, and because everything that's going on, and the market is so unpredictable. I found a couple of properties this week. By the time I called the agent, they told me that the property were already sold, so yeah. It's a weird market and, also, when we spoke the last time we had our one to one. You gave some ideas on how to increase the network, how to improve that side so you can be more in contact with the investor, and these kind of people that you need to exceed in what you want to do, basically.
Yeah. So you're another one, Silvana, aren't you, that you've got multiple strands to the way you are trying to generate income by being full-time in property. You're going to do the flip that you talked about, but also you're doing the sourcing, and project management. I think some of the investor services you are researching at the moment. Isn't that fair? Yeah. So I think it's interesting the people who've stepped out. I don't want to use the word because there's a word that's used a lot, and probably overused, is hustle, but do you feel like you're hustling, you two? Do you feel you're having to do different things to make it work?
Yes. Yes, I think.
Definitely.
Yeah, thought so. Let's bring the other guys in.
It's definitely a grind, but-
Oh, sorry. Sorry, Martin.
I was just going to say it's definitely like every day is kind of you're just grinding, and there's loads of different tasks to complete in that, but I personally wouldn't have it any other way, so I would much rather work 12, 14-hour days in property doing my own thing, being kind of self employed than be back working for someone else doing something that's not property related.
We got a thumbs up from Silvana with that comment as well, so yeah. It sounds like you're both onto that particular script. That's cool. The four guys then who we've bee patiently waiting there, so that means you do have a boss at the moment. Right? I'm not saying having a job is bad, but is that your end game? If so, when do you think you might be in a position potentially, assuming your boss isn't listening right now, to maybe step out? Who wants to lead us off into that one? Nana, you're on mute, I'm afraid. Oh, you're off now.
Yeah. Our goal is in two years' time. I think Corona pushed everything back a little bit, but that's for everyone. I really don't like my job because I work nights, and I'm a morning person. Nights, and I work at the factory company, warehouse company in [Waldorf 00:19:43], so yeah. That's my boss. I think they already know that I'm looking to quit my job as soon as possible, but I really don't care because I have all of this insurance, like if you lost a job.
I don't know how it is in the U.K., but in Sweden we have if you lose your job, if you pay every month that I've done, you get a security insurance that I'll get around 90% of my paycheck, and I don't know how it will work when you can't go out of the E.U. because it's in the E.U. restriction that you can use this, so then I can relocated if I like to the U.K. and still get the insurance, but we'll see.
Yeah. Well, just let's dwell on that for a second because you mentioned casually that you are not in the U.K., so where are you, first of all?
Sweden.
You're in Sweden, right. Are your investments in Sweden or the U.K., or somewhere else?
In the U.K.
Yeah? So your activity is in the U.K., but you're doing it from Sweden, so how are you finding that, by the way, doing it from a bit of a distance?
You need to learn everything from habits that you have in the U.K., from how property sales, and how everything goes, et cetera. In Sweden, we don't use the solicitors for purchasing a house, but in the U.K. you use it, so it's a lot of things that's not the same, but I'm always up for learning, so-
Cool.
... I've been listening to podcasts, as you're aware of, webinars, and reading books a lot, and YouTube, and education, paid for education, et cetera, so that's that's the way I think you need to go when you're going to invest in another country that you're not from.
What sort of strategies are you looking to pursue, and will that change in two years' time?
No. For quitting our job, I think the easiest part will be to get some rent to rent. We have one rent to rent that we're doing at JB so we're splitting the profit, and that's good. So if we can retain more of that, that will be great because then we can quit our job earlier, but, at the same time, buying assets to keep because that's the end game.
Yeah. So just quickly, so you're doing rent to rent with a joint venture partner overseas?
Yeah.
Okay. Right. That's nice and straightforward. Brilliant. Okay, thanks, Nana, for sharing that part. I think we'll go around the table and just pick up the other guys if they're okay to share. Who wants to jump in and tell us about what they're doing, the sidelines, and what their intentions are and strategies are that they're following right now?
Yeah, so I guess that I'm at the other end of the scale to that. I don't have an urgency to lead my day job. I'm quite happy with it in a side hustle, and hopefully build up some cash for my own investment, and then somewhere further down the road then I can think about that a little more, but obviously, I'm going down the sourcing route as well. I've teamed up with one of the other members. I've set up business. It's working quite well because there's two of us to share the load, so it essentially makes it as if there's someone doing it full-time anyway.
Yeah. So you got a side hustle. There's two of you, and you're kind of spreading the load as you call it with sourcing, at the same time as having some of your own rental properties at the moment as well. Is that right?
Yes. Yeah. That's correct. They're self managed at the moment. There's only two. To be honest with you, I don't really have any issues with them, so they are as hands off as they can be. There's still work involved, obviously, but I think as soon as I start increasing that, I'll bring in an agent to manage those that I'm, and obviously I can concentrate on other things.
What's the idea behind sourcing then? Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what's the idea of sourcing and why you've also got properties on the side?
The sourcing really is to build up my own investment fund, really, along with the income I get off the two properties, and then longterm look at other strategies aside from just standard buy to let, and then, hopefully, somewhere along the line lead more into development then as well.
Okay. Presumably, you can find your own deals.
That's a flash point.
Yeah, exactly. It sounds good. Okay, thanks, Sion for sharing. The same question. We've got who? David and Dominick, I think.
Do you want me to go next?
Sure.
Yeah, so I guess my goal is to be able to retire when I'm 50 or rather not continuing my day job when I'm 50, so that's six years away. So hoping then to be financially free, so that then I can focus full-time on property. I don't think I'll fully retire because I'll still do something, but I'll just be working for myself on the property side. I'm in my current job on a contract, so I tend to go job to job couple of years, possibly, so even when I'm 50 if I'm in a good role, I might end up staying there. Where I am now is quite a good role, so six years away I probably still won't be in this role in six years, but if I'm in a similar role, I may not retire then, but my aim is to be able to if I want to when I'm 50, retire from my day job.
Cool. What are you doing on the side with property? What strategies are you following right now?
The main strategy, I guess, is buy to let, so I have a few buy to lets, venturing out, I guess, into refurbs as well, so adding value, and remortgaging, so purchasing cash, doing the place up, and then pulling some cash out that we can then recycle and rerun again, and then I also have one HMO, which as you know Richard, is sourced through yourself, so kind of dipping the toes into that as well. I think they're kind of my main strategies, so buy to let, refurbs, B.O.R., and then HMOs as well, so that's what I'm focused on initially.
Apart from the day job, is there a location influence at all that you're wrestling with?
Well, you mean where I am now or just in general? I didn't mention about my goal as well. I'd like to be able to when I do kind of retire and focus on property full-time, I'd like to be able to just go and work wherever I want six months at a time or live wherever I want six months at a time, work remotely. Move onto somewhere else. Yeah, I mean, currently, I'm working out in Helsinki with a job I'm on at the moment.
Yeah?
Yeah. So investing remotely back in the U.K.
Yeah.
I was traveling backwards and forwards quite a lot before the lockdown, but then, obviously, not at the moment.
Was that difficult for you to deal with or not so much from a property point of view?
From a property point of view? No because I've got some JV partners that I'm working with back home, so if things need doing, I have been able to call upon them. Yeah, so it's still manageable, and obviously we've assigned good agents for the properties that are currently let, but yeah. I'm kind of hands off. I don't get involved in the day to day.
Interesting. Okay, yeah. So you've got some agents. You've got some partners that you can rely upon, and obviously, if your intention is to be location independent, to coin a phrase, then it makes sense to set it up from the beginning. Doesn't it? That way.
Yeah, definitely.
Sounds good. All right, Dominick, good. So I think we've got David then. Isn't that right?
Yes. That is me. Yeah. I'm actually working for a company that works in the property world, property space, so it's an interesting one, so I'm learning all the time about the market, and the sector that I'm interested in anyway, which pros and cons. I'm working for someone else, but I'm, at the same time, working in that environment and learning all the time about various different things, financing, partnerships, different model techniques you can use, so really my strategy at the moment is I've got that as my day job as it were. Individually, I'm looking to go into the housing ladder.
Really, what I'm looking for is something that I can do up to a degrees to flip it within a short period of time. With what's going on in the market, that probably is going to be quite tricky to find, a deal that suites that criteria, so it's more looking at something that, actually, "Okay." Maybe have a launch or turn into a buy to let in the longer term, so start building out a portfolio of properties, and benefit from that first-time buyer, so that's something that I'm pushing hard on at the moment, and there's kind of the third thing, which is kind of what you guys have said as well, if you work full-time as a side hustle of sourcing, so sourcing buy to let refurb projects, that kind of thing, single units.
Just doing that for some clients, really. I think where my goals are going to go is ultimately what I'd like to do is be in a position where that sourcing part creates a pot of money, plus a clientele basis that I can go full-time into there, and then like Sion, like Martin, like some of the other guys have said, sort of broaden the horizons, and look at other alternative models, maybe development given my experience in the development sector at the moment, and take it from there. Yeah. That's where I'm at.
Yeah. It's quite a mixture there. Isn't it? You're working in the sector for your employer, trying to get on the housing ladder, and create some kind of income stream, whether it's to add value or whether it's a lodger for a rental income, and then the sourcing to, presumably, generate additional income, but also other opportunities.
Yeah. Right.
So collectively, when do you all sleep? Because it sounds to me like you got loads of things going on. I think hard work or long hours, or hustle on the side was mentioned quite a bit, so does anybody sleep here? No? More or less. [crosstalk 00:32:17] Say again, sorry? Not enough?
Not enough, no.
I kind of joked about does anyone sleep, but on a serious note, are you putting the hours in collectively? Do you find that your work/own business day is kind of stretched beyond what you might call a regular nine to five job or whatever shift it is? Do you think you're working longer hours than perhaps the average person?
Yeah. I think so.
Yeah, definitely.
There's always a little bit of in the evenings after the day job, and then to check up when I do. Yeah.
Yeah? How do you-
I think it's trying to utilize that time that you have in the day, so we all have 24 hours. We all have the same amount of hours in the day, and you can use that 24 hours however you want. Those who you do have full-time jobs have certain periods of time where you're working for your employer, but that time outside of those hours is your time, and it's trying to just time manage that time effectively, and get the balance. I think that's the key as well for longevity is making sure that, yes, it is a hustle, and yes, it is a go, go, go, but at the same time, it's got to be that balance where you don't burn out. You're not working until midnight, say. You know your body. You know what works for you, and getting into a routine.
I think it's just being that disciplined, and consistency, which I think is something that I've learnt is if you're putting a few hours in a day, that consistency over time that snowball effect will rack up, and it starts to produce results. For me, it's time management, and then trying to get that consistency, which I think is the hard bit, actually, consistency, for sure.
That's a very interesting take on it, to be honest. So what about everybody else? Did it resonate with what David's saying?
Yeah. It is about consistency. I agree with David, but my problem is the time management. I want to do so much, and there's not enough time, I feel, and I have to be with my daughter, Emily, as well, my fiancee, so I try to schedule all of those things in so you don't get worn out, but at the same time, I'm always like, "If I don't do it, who is going to do it for me?" So it's a double-edged sword.
Yeah. I mean, it is a double-edged sword, and I think the key phrase there was if you don't do it, who's going to do it for you? Certainly that, and going back to what, well, you touched on a little bit, Nana, and also David said, "The consistency and the time management, and whether it's up to you." Does anyone here outsource at the moment or allocate work to other people? Some of you already mentioned to some extent, so just kind of get a handle on if you're giving work to other people to make yourself... Yeah, Nana, come on. Come back. Come back. That's cool.
Oh, okay. So the first thing that I noticed just to get a bit of time management was after I read this book Four Hours Work Week, I was like all of those small tasks, why don't we just outsource it to someone who is in the Philippines for a small fee, so I can have more time with my family and do whatever I want, and just focus on the important stuff. So that's what we have done, me and Emily. We source it to a VA. So she look at the deals, find deals, and then we make the decision just to double check so it's correct, but all of the searching, and all of the news that happened in the U.K., she just summarizes everything, and just send them in an email where, "Okay. This is important. This is happening in your area," et cetera, et cetera.
So that's time consuming if I was doing it on my own, so yeah. I think it's worth the $3 that she gets.
How many hours is she working for you, would you say, per week, say or per month?
At the moment, she is working 10 hours-
Per week?
... a week.
Yeah?
Yeah.
As you said, well, you've kind of given us a clue to the cost of that, $3 an hour, 10 hours a week, so $30 a week. Nearly couldn't do the math then. Somebody better get me out of this industry if that's the case. Yeah, so $30 a week, but your time, I guess, you see it as having a different value to that. Yeah, cool. Dominick, you mentioned already, didn't you, that you kind of... What was your word? You're relying on joint venture partners, and agents. From your point of view, it's-
Yeah, definitely. Something else I was going to mention is, I guess, efficiency of your time. As David said, you only got a set amount of hours in the day, so what tasks can you do with that?
Sorry.
[crosstalk 00:38:02] or get someone else to do them. Yeah.Have you got any tips on being efficient with your time? Is there any tools you use or techniques that you use?
Well, obviously, task lists, things like that. There's a tool that I've recently started using called Mention, an app, which I really like. I've been using it a week or so. It's helped me get a lot more efficient. So you just put your notes in there, create task lists, whatever, organize things however you want self canva boards. I've just been doing that trying to get all my tasks organized because, generally, I write stuff on pieces of paper, and then started pieces of paper where nothing gets done, so I'm trying to be a lot more organized. Yeah. I feel like it's really helping.
Cool. What about the others? You haven't spoken so much about this. Any tools or techniques that you're using to manage your time or outsource, perhaps?
I think for myself, a real game changer was I read the book Getting Things Done. I think is Dave Allen, I think.
Yeah.
That was a real game changer for me because I was similar to Dom. I'd write stuff down on paper, but it'd still be sort of in my head, and then I was always forgetting about things, and then you'd come across a piece of paper a week later, so there's a real handy spreadsheet system that you use, it's in the book, where you have different lists for stuff. One of them is like a someday maybe list, but I just found that getting stuff down on that list, sort of checking them off, and moving them over to separate boxes, it really cleared my head space, and then I was much more productive after that.
Thanks, Sion, excellent. I don't know, Silvana. I wanted to come to you, but I know that Martin we've been talking quite a lot about some of the tools and apps that you've been using. Do you want to check in at this point?
Yeah. I would say in terms of if I could go back to when I first moved to the U.K., and started doing full-time property, something I would definitely do different is structure in my day how I kind of structure it now. Definitely, one of my best friends for planning things and not forgetting things is Siri. As soon as you remember something, I get Siri to remind me of it, say the next day at 9:00 a.m. or something like that, and then my Google calendar, and then I always plan my day the night before so I have a little booklet, and then I write what my tasks are and when I'm going to do those tasks on an hourly basis or half an hourly basis, so my whole day is kind of planned out. To do that, I look at Siri what I've got to remind me to do. Check those off. Put them in the list. Look at my Google Calendar.
What have I got to do? And then also I've got my KPIs written down or broken down into a weekly basis, and they are broken down into days as well, so I make sure that, for example, like I have YouTube videos to edit, and that's always on a Sunday, so I'll always incorporate that into my plans as well, but going even further in terms of forward thinking for the business, and then saving time is CRM systems. That's something that I've been massively looking into recently. The main one that I've gotten into is Podia. During lockdown, I spent probably about... Well, probably right now about 300 hours just programming Podia, learning it, setting it up, and I'm probably about halfway to where I want to be.
There's a lot to do still, but I've got it to the point where it reminds me to follow up on leads. It reminds me to follow up on connections I've made, and I can add notes, and that type of thing, so CRM system is something I'm going be building out more and more at the moment, and I think that will help massively.
Yeah. I've been certainly very impressed with the way you've gone about things. Would you say that goes... Is that natural to you or have you kind of had to train yourself to use these systems, and these apps, and these routines or disciplines?
I would say I like organization. If I wake up in the morning, these days, before I wasn't so much like that, especially when I wasn't working full-time in property. I obviously wouldn't plan my day to the extent I do now, but these days if I don't plan my day the night before, I wake up, and I feel a bit lost. It feels strange to not have it all planned out, and it just makes it much simpler. I do like organization, so when I work, I always have to have a clean environment. Before I go to bed, my night routine is to clean my whole apartment, so I wake up to a nice, clean place.
It's kind of like I like the organization side of things, but I wouldn't say I was always like that. No. It's something that I kind of like to say, "A clean environment, a clean mind, and then I find it easier to get things done."
I see quite a lot of nodding as you're talking there, people are resonating with that. Silvana, anything you wanted to chip in with at this point, you don't have to, but if there was anything on the sort of systems and outsourcing side of things in particular.
Basically, I try to systemize my days, and when I need to remember anything, I write down everybody. If I make a new piece of paper diary, if I make a call with a real estate agent, I write down straightaway the name. I put everything in my Outlook, in the calendar, so I remember to call them once a week just to check with them to see where we are, to see if we are making any progress, and so they will remember me because good to be their ... and yeah. Because I used to do it the same when I was working as a credit controller. I used to put everything down into Outlook, and write down everything on the paper.
Even my book, I have a book with updates, with anything. I used to write down everything because if I get that down today, I keep a copy until I got it down. Yeah. It's the same, basically. Probably because I was organizing that way, so nothing has changed. I'm sure there is always room for improvement. I want to buy the same book that Sion was talking about because I ordered that when I was doing the project management course, so I will check with that as well to see if there is something that I can use to improve.
Sounds good. Sounds good. Atomic Habits is another one as well. It's a good book as a general... but I think the point of this part of the conversation was to talk about systems and organization, routine, and, also, outsourcing, and utilizing other people so you can be more efficient. Plan your time. Focus on your key priorities. That seems to a bit of a summary takeaway there, using other people, using systems, and apps, and tools to help you get more done because you have to be highly productive. Many of you are still working, so there's a hustle, but even the ones who are working, sorry, working full-time in property, still need to be efficient to get more done.
One of the key characteristics there, you don't always hear a conversation like this down the pub, to be honest, so there's something a bit different going on here with this. What I'm going to do, though, I did threaten you that if we talk and it's all nice, quality conversation, we might run into a two parter, so I'm going to probably just hit pause right now, and we'll come back, and we'll pick up the conversation in part two, so thanks for joining me on part one. If you want to get a quick drink or anything like that, we're going to come back to part two imminently.
So, that's the end of part one. We've all gone and had a little drink and refreshed before we get back into part two, which of course you're going to hear next week. Yes, there was a Hollywood moment even amongst that. You might not have heard it because we had to edit out some of the... There was a bit of a poor signal at one point in time. But not talked about, he decided to go full time in property at the Hollywood sign in LA. So, I don't think I've heard that before. But we can all decide at different points in time with different triggers and different stimulus is that this is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going to do it. So, it was fantastic to hear that.
There was a few takeaways I'll just quickly summarize in part one. Things don't always move as quickly as you would want to. It came out quite early, actually, in the conversation. And so there was a little bit of adaptability, a little bit of flexibility that needs to take place, and not least of which, how are people deriving their income? Especially if they're already full time in property.
There was some people who are building their own business as a sideline, as a side hustle, literally. And in fact, every single one, when I checked, every single one of the six guests put their hand up when I said, "Who's working long hours?" There was this element of putting in the hours at this point in time and elements of delayed gratification to build a better future. So, putting the hours in now may be so that they don't have to quite work as hard in the future. I did note that.
There was also the, "If I don't do it, then who's going to do it for me?" comment that came out. It was another observation, I thought. There was a number of people nodding when that came about. This isn't easy. That's my point. This isn't easy, not everybody's doing this. And it takes something special to actually put yourself out there to do this, to keep going. Especially after a hard day's work, or you're being let down, or you haven't got an income, or whatever else coming in. So, that was there.
And then towards the end of the conversation, we also started talking about organization, productivity, time efficiency, some of the tools, systems, and apps that people are using to get out there as well. So, that was kind of an interesting point, wasn't it, to be talk about being organized, being... So prioritizing, I think, is the word I'm looking for, prioritizing our time so that we're focusing on what's really important. And there's a number of book references there as well, I'm sure you picked up along the way. So, I think we're probably going to get into the point that there's an element of personal development and growth also that goes alongside the business development and growth, as you'll probably hear, no doubt, in part two.
But let's return for part two next week. That's the end for part one right now. As usual, you can find the show notes over at the website, thepropertyvoice.net. And if you'd like to talk to me about anything from today's show, you can reach me, podcast at thepropertyyvoice.net. I'd be more than happy to hear from you. And obviously what I'll do is collect the contact details of the guests and I'll share those in the show notes as well. They do actually share them at the end of part two, but I'll make sure they're in the show notes for part one as well, if I get my act together, that is.
So, yeah. I guess that's all that remains. The show notes will be there, as I mentioned. Do come back for part two. It was an interesting conversation. There's a lot of relatability, I think, hopefully you're finding from these panelists, not just this week, but in previous weeks as well, and of course in the weeks before that. I hope you're getting something out of it. So, there we go. That's all from me this week. And until next time on The Property Voice podcast is caio, caio.
Thank you for listening today. Not head over to thepropertyvoice.net for more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the Property Voice Podcast. And if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate us on iTunes.
That's all from me this week, remember if you want to talk about anything from today’s show, or just talk property investing more generally, email me at podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, I would be happy to hear from you! The show notes can be found at our website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thanks very much for listening again this week, so all that left to say is ciao ciao!