Here is the second part of the panel discussion with some ‘second-steppers’, Carl Gilbert, Anthony Boyce, Omanice Olusola, Sven Chesters and Daniel Riley as we host a panel discussion together.
Part two sees us dig into some of the realities and lessons learned so far, along with some tips and advice for those looking to do something similar and go full-time in property too. I then wrap up by drawing some conclusions and common ground from the conversation; there’s some really good points shared I have to say.
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Transcription of the show
Here is the second part of the panel discussion with some ‘second-steppers’, Carl Gilbert, Anthony Boyce, Omanice Olusola, Sven Chesters and Daniel Riley as we host a panel discussion together.
Part two sees us dig into some of the realities and lessons learned so far, along with some tips and advice for those looking to do something similar and go full-time in property too. I then wrap up by drawing some conclusions and common ground from the conversation; there’s some really good points shared I have to say.
Property Chatter
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Property Voice Podcast. My name is Richard Brown and as always, it's a pleasure to have you join me again on the show today.
Well, I kind of left you with a bit of a cliffhanger, didn't I, last week? Basically I kind of forgot to do an outro, so sorry about the abrupt end there, but people have actually said it's a bit of a cliffhanger of an ending. So hopefully it's whetted your appetite to come back for more this week in what is the second part of the panel discussion I had with what I call the second steppers.
And some people are saying, "What is a second stepper?" I was kind of using a house ladder as sort of a reference. So you've got first-time buyers and you've got second steppers, haven't you? Second steppers are the people who are no longer first-time buyers and are moving up the ladder. So I was kind of trying to use that reference in case it wasn't that obvious.
So we're going to welcome back Carl, Anthony, Monica, Daniel, and Sven, in part two of the discussion we had about going full time in property. And if you remember, the five of them stepped out. They are along the journey, but they can't quite put their feet up yet and sip that piña colada on a beach. That's the context we had.
I think we'd finished off with a discussion around personal development. That's where we left off last time. So we're just going to pick up now and we're going to go into the journey that people have taken, some of the characteristics that we might need to get by as we persevere. So let's just dive into that conversation now. And perhaps I'll just do a quick wrap up at the end.
So we're back again, as we said, we're talking so much we turned it into a quality two-parter rather than try into a single episode. So last time out, we kind of left off, we were talking about personal growth development, professional growth and development. But let's talk about the journey, so the actual process of being in property. How has it gone? Can anybody put their hands up and say it's all been plain sailing, everything's gone swimmingly well, it's been problem free? Any hands going up?
Not here.
But why is that then? Tell me, what is the reality, what have you experienced?
Oh, God. Who wants to bare their soul first?
Sounds like you Anthony.
There's so much unknown, isn't it? That anything takes twice as long, probably costs twice as much. Yeah, it's just so much can change. There could be time delays, cost overruns. I mean, on some projects anything that can go wrong, does go wrong, and you just have to preserve really. I'm sure within every property developer there's an element of that within us, that we soldier on because if you don't have that in you, then yeah you'll soon get overwhelmed. And think having good partners, one way or another, is also good. Someone to bounce your troubles off, is also very powerful. Yeah. And a good team of professionals around you.
Come on Anthony, you wanting to bare your soul, I'm sure you did.
No, I mean, even with my experience sort of doing what I've been doing for so many, it still goes wrong on site. You put your trust into other trades and maybe they're not quite on side with what you want to do or what you're trying to achieve. So yeah, things go wrong as you said there. There are always problems that are unearthed when you start a build, so things take longer, you fall out with people, they cost more money. So it's a case of earning your stripes. And I think as you said there, it's perseverance is what I think defines a proper investor or someone whose going to make this... Again, someone whose maybe just going to dip their toe in and fall flat on their face. You need to just keep at it because it doesn't happen overnight. It is like rolling a snowball uphill and then one day you'll get to the top and it just becomes a lot easier.
Well said.
Yep. I mean, I don't want to bring to much pain into this part of the conversation, but thank you, by the way, for sharing and being vulnerable, enough to actually say that perhaps things haven't always gone well because a lot of times, the whole the Instagram world doesn't portray the reality of what it can be sometimes. So it's interesting, you both said, just in that last section, perseverance was a key characteristic that you need to be successful in this business to survive in the long run. Are there any other characteristics that you think, not necessarily all about dealing with problems on site, but what else do you think are qualities or characteristics that we might be need to stick and go full-time in property?
[crosstalk 00:43:11]. A sense of focus, urgency. So one thing that struck me when trying to build up momentum by myself was, like Anthony, the perseverance and having that reason why, something to come back to. Yeah, it is a long slog and you quite quickly realize that there's so much talk out there of get rich quick schemes that you really do need to graft away and put the hours in, put the reps in, to add value. You can't just click your fingers and you get rewarded for turning up, you need to put the hours in and find those opportunities and just keep on plugging away.I think it was Seth Godin, I might be wrong, but I think it was Seth Godin who said it takes six years to become an overnight success.
Yeah. Yeah. Certainly makes sense.
So, we've got the focus. And having a reason why, I thought was an interesting one. Anybody else got anymore they want to add to this shopping list of qualities for us?
Yeah, I think, I know a lot of people say it, but I didn't start with clear goals. And you can end up sort of being two, three, even four, years into it and just sort of plodding along, just thinking, oh, I'm flipping these properties, but without actually having a clear path or a clear goal, you don't actually know whether you're getting to where you want to go. So I think having clear goals and referring to back to them regularly, is something I'd definitely do now.
Efficiency, I think time efficiency, cost, being efficient with everything you do, even the way you interact with people, I think that's key. And I think you've got to be cautiously optimistic because in the past I've sort of been a bit too optimistic with GDVs and how long things are going to take. And all that perfect storm sometimes, where your worse case scenario somebody tells you, is your best case scenario. And then it's very... Your exit options suddenly become less or restricted if you've got less margin in there, it can become very stressful. So yeah, cautious optimism I would say.
So you still go the world optimism in there, so that's good.
Yeah. So I did pay that.
Well, you probably still need to be optimistic or have a positive outlook I think. But I think a cautious realism sprinkling on top, sounds fair to me.
A bit of resilience in there as well.
A bit of resilience, absolutely.
So I have one to.
Yeah, go for it.
It's to be... When you're penny wise and pound foolish you... And I've kind of learnt over the years that if you have good tradesman, even though they may cost that extra bit, or a good architect, whatever, they are worth their weight in gold. Because getting it wrong can very, very costly indeed. So it's about being really wise when you see those cost estimates come through and who they're coming through from and being able to make that decision as to say I'll work with this guy, I know that he knows his stuff, he's worth every penny. And it's difficult, isn't it, when you're on a budget on site and you really want to make every penny count, but it's just being really careful when those kind of decisions as to who you bring on board to work with you. And if you have good contractors, hold them closely.
Yeah. I hope they're not listening because they're going to be knocking on your door asking pay rise now, if you said they're worth their weight in gold.
Well.
I know what you mean. I think it was Sam [Collett 00:47:32] who said bounce back ability as well. And there was someone who referred me to a saying just the other day, I'm trying to think of the source, I'll try and remember as we talking, but a previous coach, a good friend of mine, he said if you have 50 good days in a year, you're doing well. But I don't know if that's true, but I think yeah, we need a bit of resilience and bounce back ability, I think it features-
80-20 principles...
80-20 yeah. So we got those, there are probably others. I've got a few of my own, but let's move on. I think we've got... We've spoken about some things on project level, we've spoken a little bit, I probably want to come back to some of the strategies, but we refer to that a bit, but let's just say some of you have been involved for a number years now, a decade or more in some cases, some of you for about half that time, and some of you recently, but what do you about change over time, cycles? What are your thoughts on that?
What cycles in what, the properties itself or everything?
Do you... Yeah, not the BMX bike, no, no. Yeah. Do you see evidence of clear cycles economic or property specifically?
Yeah [crosstalk 00:49:03]. I think that... No go on, Sven.
Yeah. Sorry. So when I started it was 2013 and that was a rising market, so it was a lot easier to make money through selling very quickly. So obviously when you're flipping and selling, you're always a buyer and a seller, if you're going to buy the next property that is. It can give you a sort of false perception of how easy it might be to move onto the next project. And then it was actually probably Brexit, the market was bound to have a slow down anyway, but Brexit was probably the catalyst for that. But then suddenly things weren't moving nearly as quickly in terms of selling, so then it puts pressure on if you are moving onto new projects and are probably over leveraged or out of my comfort zone anyway. And then, like I said before, it's if your profit margins aren't great or things are taking slightly longer, the cycle can... If things are moving really quickly, it's a lot easier to deal with.
Good. Have you, Sven, then seen the cycle?
Well, I mean, I guess one I've kind of, like Sven says, there's lots of strategies that fit different times, it's very area specific as well. I mean, I'm in the North East, we've not really experienced any capital growth for a while now, so maybe things like you would normally use in rising market, like flipping, don't particularly work all that well unless you really buy below market value, but like when the PD rates came in for offices to [ressy 00:51:01], a lot of people jumped on that. Gobbled up all of the old offices and then started needing to build more offices to cater for the actual offices.
I think we're probably going to see a dip in that now. Just with obviously what's happened with corona, people probably working from home. But also retail we're moving, are going to contract to a point where town centers are smaller, we've got more residential and then there's going to be a need then for retail to come back. so profit. So I think there are cycles as you start doing a bit more in property. Well, you just spot the opportunities and places if you've kind of got your thinking cap on, so that's what I've noticed anyway.
Excellent.
And open to different opportunities, isn't it? So keeping your eyes open and go with the flow, see what works.
Yeah.
Yeah, because there's a couple of schools of thought, isn't there? There's stay in your lane or diversify and grow or don't be the ostrich with our head in the soil, waiting to have your head bitten off. So stay in your lane is like stick to what you know, perfect it, the cookie cutter, keep repeat, repeat, repeat. But then will that always work? Will it always serve you? Alternatively, you could actually open your eyes and your mind and venture out in different areas, but of course, if you spread yourself too thinly and too quickly, trying to step up too fast or take on too much, it could have consequences there too. So it's a balance, isn't it?
I.. the 70-20-10 rule, so you sort of spend 70% of your time focused on your core strategy, and then you have these little side projects, they may evolve into something else, you may rely on them, you may need to completely transition to something else.
Yeah, definitely.
That's actually interesting, isn't it? So having basically, you said 70-20-10, I'd say 60-20-20, what does it matter? But the idea is you have one key strategy and you have other things going on at the same time. And pretty much... Well most of you either have more than one going and/or you have lets say an alternative income stream or perhaps savings to buck tide you over. Is that fair? Is that pretty much how you see it? You've tried de-risk your position in some way?
Yeah, definitely.
Yep.
Yeah.
Quite definitely. I mean, when I was doing single lets and I just looked at the level of exposure there, one tenant not paying and in London rents are higher, more desire. And then we just decided to shift, to turn them all more progressively over time into HMOs. And that was to help to diverse really and to make sure that we might have one or two in difficulty, not paying, but you won't have six. So that was a transition that we just looked at how things were then and thought, right, okay, this would put us in better stead. But if you look at the HMO market now, very saturated, local authorities are making crazy demands in terms of, I don't know what the nature of payments they're asking for now, but they want you to pay per unit, and it's becoming more and more challenging. So I know some people who are leaving HMOs and are converting them back to single lets. It's the fluidity really, depending on what's the prevailing economic and political environment. Yeah, that's how we survive, isn't it?
You picked up on a few different things there on that little segue about, all of you, about one economic related cycles and shocks like Brexit, like coronavirus, and did touch on the global first crisis, but that's just in the last 10 years. That was three big economic events in the last 10 years. But also, I probably wasn't thinking it when I asked the question, very good point about how different strategies, you're either coming to vogue or go out of vogue, but also perhaps a more relevant in certain areas or certain parts of the market, that was really interesting, thanks to share. I think the other thing I wanted to talk about, is in terms of what have you learnt along the way? What don't they teach you in the books or in the property school? What surprised you as you've gone along? Anybody want to... I probably should ask individual questions, but I don't want to put anybody on the spot. But has anybody got anything, "Well, this really surprised me. I wasn't expecting this." Anything like that?
There are over arching powers of building control and planning. Yeah, that was a shocker for me.
Only building control and planning? What about surveyors?
Well, surveyors, but yeah they can just stop you dead in your tracks and I mean, dead in your tracks. So yeah, there are compliance issues there that you just have to really have to be on the ball about because they can just stop you in your tracks.
External forces then. Okay, like building control. Anthony, you like you're going to offer something in there
Well, I guess the thing I think is, I can't remember the saying now, it's when you over estimate what you can achieve in one year, but underestimate what you can do over a period of time. I guess it just goes back to that snowball thing. I think, and we're probably all guilty when we started off, we were thinking, yes, we'll take over the world in a couple of years time. But it does take a little bit longer than you think, but you kind of don't realize what's happening to you because it's kind of all working behind scenes and then all the forces come together. Again, it goes back to perseverance, I think that's the biggest lesson I've had to learn, just keep at it.
Any other ones in this area?
I think for me. Sorry. I think for me, it's how long things can take. Conveyancing, buying or selling, I think one commercial property we bought, just because of the way the title deed was split, I think it was eight different title numbers on the one deed. So yeah, the solicitor wasn't very pleased with me, but I think that one took about 10 months to buy from putting the offer in. There was nobody else involved, so it was just to go through all the due diligence there. And then also financing, when you want to finance a lot of finance companies say they can do it very quickly, and even like bridging finance can suddenly take a few months.
A good one there with the legal aspect. I mean, that's one thing there that they don't really teach in books, in courses, and whatever else. But yeah, come up against... It's more the older schools ones who are stuck in their ways I think, they can cause problems when you're in the legal stages of purchases or remortgages or whatever else. I mean, we had one remortgage going through for an HMO and the solicitor we were using decided to tell the mortgage company that it wasn't an HMO for whatever reason, it wasn't their interpretation of what an HMO was, which delayed us by a couple of months while sort of... "No, no. Really, it is an HMO." So yeah, the people you encounter on the journey as well I guess. Yeah. Ups and downs there.
I had a similar case myself, to be honest, Anthony, where I was trying to convert a property into separate bedsits with self-contained facilities. Under the housing act that is still an HMO. But I was also applying for a grant, an Empty Homes Grant, and Empty Homes offices is telling me it's not an HMO. And I said, "It is." And he's like, "It's not." But he's got the grant money and I want it. So, it's not an HMO, no it's HMO. You remove the kitchens and have a shared kitchen, that's an HMO. So yeah, the external forces and control that people can have. It's interesting that you should say that. There's a role as well, in estate agency, they call it a sales progression, or sales progressor. We also have to be [crosstalk 00:59:41]. Have we?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So we talked about that, we talked about what they don't teach you, if you look at property school or in the books. But if you had your time again, for some of you it's relatively early, but if you had your time again, would you do anything different? And if so what would it be?
I guess starting earlier would be... I guess that's a common one. I mean, I didn't get going until probably 34, 35. So if I had the background knowledge to have going a lot sooner, it's just a confidence thing I guess at the time. So that would be the biggest one. I mean, I'm going to say it just because I run a networking group, but networking. I wish I'd started that a lot sooner as well because what's happened since we've begun has been crazy. So yeah, get going and get networking as well, that'll be my advice to my younger self.
I second that with the networking there. I think that's key, just key networking. You know you can't do it on your own, it's just not possible. Not possible at all.
Another big up for networking. Carl, you looked like you were anticipating.
Yeah, I was getting ready to say... Yeah, I touched on it earlier but focus was the big thing for me. So I spent a lot of last year, kind of strategizing and what I came to realize, and certainly more in this year, it's all about adding value and focusing on the areas of the business that could bring results and the key result areas. So spit out systems, come up with logos, building websites, all of those things add very little value. They need to be done, but I choose when do them. I think things like finding opportunities and looking for deals and solving problems, that's where you add the value.
It's easy to be busy fool and keep yourself busy. But one think I like to think about is imagine if someone was paying your wages, then you had to write a report at the end of the week, or you have to answer to them, "Well, this week, so I've managed to create a website and we got a new logo." Well, where's the money coming from? So that's helped me a few times to think about if I was employed. So, for example, would your employer be happy if kind of just slopped off work at four o'clock every afternoon? Just try and keep yourself disciplined as if someone was paying you.
Well, someone is.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
It's yourself.
Yeah.
So it goes back to what Daniel said earlier though, isn't it, about accountability, I think. So I'm not trying to lead you into answering that question, by the way, Daniel. But it was-
Oh, you're right, it is. I try, but everybody's got 24 hours in a day. It's up to you what you choose to do with those 24 hours. You can say, oh, I've got a job, I'm struggling, but you get up earlier, go to be later, you just... If you tell yourself these things, you're just having yourself on. You're telling yourself that you can't do it, when you can do anything you want if you focus on it, you can do anything. You've got to get around the right people.
If there's someone who you know or someone you might have heard of or your cousin's aunty's sister has done something in property, just ring them up and ask her a question, ask them what they've done. And start a network, as soon as you get around those people, they'll give you the tips, no one's keeping them, it's not like trade secret, anyone will tell you anything what to do. Especially, the property people, they're a sound bunch of people as well. Everybody's willing to help, if you're going through troubles, even non-property related, I'm pretty sure everyone will help you out, so that's what I say.
That's good. So I mean, there's a big thing about belief there, isn't there? When you started, you were talking about belief and it can be done. But also about resourcefulness, about putting yourself out there and asking people for help and advice. You don't necessarily have to pay for every piece of advice and help that you get either.
Just ask anyone who you know. If somebody's done it, they've done it, so ask them the question, can't hurt.
So I'm thinking, you've probably got 10 or 15 minutes maybe, so we're going to make this count right, the last 10 or 15 minutes. So is there is massive game changing moments or even a mindset shift that anyone's had, they go, "This was it for me. This just shifted gears, this just put me in a different place." Has anyone got an example like that and by the way, if you haven't, I'll quickly move on. But anything like that in that area? Let's finish with a nice punchy high.
Mine was just joining the apprenticeship program really. The accountability and being around the people whose done it. The guy who runs it is all right as well, which helps. That honestly, that's been the biggest change to me. You know nothing much has changed from when... I'm not doing much differently from we started, to when we finished, but a lot has happened. So my day-to-day routine has not really changed much, but a lot has happened. You can't really explain how it helps, I can't say exactly this, but a lot has changed. I'm seeing opportunities that I didn't see before, that's what I'd say.
Well there's a £50 note heading your way as we speak for that. So thanks for that.. Any other game changing moments?
I think mine as being, again, it was in a one-to-one, with your humble self, Richard. Where it's not just about the money and the returns and strategy, it was just one-to-one and it just dropped, it was about legacy. It's difficult to explain what that means to me personally, but it means a great deal. And it moved from being at the fringes, yeah from being at the fringes to really pivoting, to becoming something that is more at heart of what I need to do. You see what I mean? It's not just about the money, making more money, it's just money you know? And that has been a game changer for me, because it's bouncing around in my head now continually. I'm trying to give it form and that's not an easy thing. It's like giving birth, isn't it? It's not easy.
I'll take your word for it.
Yeah, it's not easy, but if you persevere it can be incredible. And it's not just for me. In answer to that question, that's been the game changer for me really and continues to-
Well... Sorry didn't mean to cut you off there. Isn't that a powerful share? I remember that conversation, we talked for over two hours about... That was a Friday night I seem to remember. We had other things on the agenda but we didn't get any further than that, we just talked at length, it was very inspiring as well. I mean, the big takeaway is to just get yourself in front of someone and get what's inside, out. It's amazing what you've got inside yourself that perhaps bottled and has been bottled for sometime. It doesn't matter who that person is, it might matter who it is, but it's just good to get it out. Speak it out, speak those words. And kind of name it. That's getting in touch with our purpose, our destiny, our legacy as you said, Monica. So I feel very passionately about that and being true to ourselves and it's not just about the money, as you say. What a great one. Has anybody else got of these great game changers?
Well, I guess for me, it was kind of self belief or confidence. Once I kind of realized that I did know a little bit, what I was doing was going to work, and that kind of thing, you become a bit more open to stuff I mean. A couple of years ago, I didn't want to network, I was listening to you on the podcast, and now I'm kind of on your podcast. I mean, that's quite a weird thing.
And so just confidence in what you doing and in what you know as well. I mean, when I've been through one of the HMO conversion that went wrong, it was kind of belief in myself. You listen to the builder and you think they must know best, but it wasn't it was kind of me, I should have listened to myself and it would've made things a lot easier at that point. So yeah, that's been a game changer in my eyes for me.
Yeah, trust yourself a bit more and believe in yourself. Just a bit of a side bar, you said that you listened to my podcast and stuff, thank you for that. And then you reached out to me to invite me to come up and talk in Darlington at your Property Thing networking group. And I have to say the way you reached and connected to me, it stood out, it stood out. I've been approached in the past to go and speak for other people, but you did it in such a nice way, that I just wanted to say yes. So I drove for about four and a half weeks to get there.
Well you made up for it didn't you? By staying out until four in the morning.
Oh yeah. Well it was two actually, but there we go.
Yeah.
We'll blame Martin. We'll blame Martin.
Yeah. Yeah. It was Martin, yeah.
Anyway, brilliant one.
Oh thanks for coming along. Yeah. It was great, great, great event. And hopefully when normality resumes we'll have you back sometime.
Oh, I'm glad you will. I'll be there don't worry. Thank you. Do we have some game changers? Don't know if there's any other game changers that people are burning to share.
I wanted to add in, partly brought about the lockdown, the coronavirus and the changes in the market, and slowing down, but thinking outside the box has been big for me. So not sticking to the tried and tested path, and just trying one thing. Just accepting the fact that things have slowed down, but just really hustling and looking for other opportunities. It's a really cliché thing to say, thinking outside the box, but it's the case of looking at something from as many angles as possible. It's so competitive out there. I watched quite a few good videos during the lockdown, Ryan Serhant and Tim Ferriss, they put some really good content out there. There was one the other day by Ryan, talking about people saying 2016, we're only halfway through the year, let's smash it. And there's so much inspiration out there.
Brilliant. I don't know if you're nodding at me or not, Sven. So if you're wanting to add one, you can, there's no obligation.
Yeah, I was going to say for me, it was a sort of period of forced reflection really, because after being in business, I'm still in business with my business partner, but about two years ago, she was getting to a time and age and she said that she wouldn't carry for much longer, didn't want to carry on for much longer. And she never wanted to hold any property, and think it goes, like you've mentioned before, leaving a legacy, that's all coincided with having my daughter who is now two and a half, and it really got me thinking about what do I actually... Am I just doing this for money or am I doing this for lifestyle, also what I can pass on. It's not just about how comfortable you can make yourself, it's about what you can pass on to other people.
Indeed. Talk a lot about this, legacy has come up again, and lifestyle, it's not all about the money. There we go. So some people say it is all about the money [crosstalk 01:13:04]. Brilliant. Okay. So I'm thinking now of just probably some final thoughts, so if you just want to get yourself ready. I'm going to go around the group and say is, have you got any sort of just maybe one tip. That could be a piece of advice, it could be a resource. A final thought that you might want to leave for people who've just got to the end of this two part podcast episode, you want to leave with. And maybe or if you want, and it's appropriate for you, how people might get in touch with you if you want them to, so if you don't want them to, then don't give any contact information. So yeah, a top tip, a final thought, and contact information if you wish. So anybody ready for that?
I'll jump in. I think a top tip for anyone just starting out, is just consume as much free information as you can before sort of jumping into expensive courses. There's good and bad out there, but I mean, I kind of met two people at an essay networking thing who'd spent 16 grand on the same course, a husband and wife, and that would buy a property around where I invest. So yeah, take in all you can before you go put that kind of money down because at the end of the day you've got nothing to show for it if you don't ever follow through with the property. And what was the other thing? What did we have to say? Sorry.
Your top tip, final thought, and contact information.
Right. Yeah contact, so look me up on LinkedIn or Facebook, Anthony Boyce. We have The Property Thing group, and I also run rocketarcitecturaldesign.com or wherever you find people these days on the interweb. Yeah, thank you for having me, Richard.
It's a pleasure, thanks for joining us. Anthony, it's been great. Who wants to go next?
I'll say I'll go next. Really, just like you said, consume what you can and just get yourself out there and get stuck in, that's all you can do. Just try and consume what you can, as much as you can, and see what resonates with you. Some of it might, you might think about it, but when you get stuck into it, you might think this is... Not into this at all. Just try and do whatever you can and see what you like.
The supermarket approach as I call it. Supermarket, you've got all these things on the self, you don't have to take everything, you can leave somethings behind, but it's all there for you to see.
That's the one.
That's the one. Thanks, Daniel, appreciate that. Any contact info or deliberately not shared it?
Well yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, I've not updated it for a while, but Daniel Riley on LinkedIn. And you can send me a direct email, in fact you can, it's danielriley@gmx.com.
Perfect.
Please don't inundate me.
Okay then. Yeah. Putting your contact details out on the internet.
Why not?
It's okay, don't worry about it. Thank you, Daniel.
No worries.
I'll go next if you like. I suppose the top tip would be mindset, mindset is everything. It's probably the most important thing you can have, a positive mindset. And if you can reframe issues, mistakes, as positive because that's how you learn really. Perseverance as well, if you can add those two things then you're well on your way. A little resource I've just started using actually and it's made my life so much easier, is an app called Things, which is like a smart to-do list for people like who've got a brain like a sieve, then it really helps. And then contact details, I'm on LinkedIn too, Sven Chesters. And my email is sven@chestermanhomes.co.uk.
Thank you, Sven. Is that Things with an I, or a Y?
Things. T-H-I-N-G-S.
Things. Okay, thank you for that. Choice of two left. Thanks, Sven. Choice of two.
Oh, well I'll just come in. Mine is top tip to just kind of take from what Sven said really around mindset. And it's about just dealing with overwhelm, just to believe that it will pass, that it's not defining. If you think of all the challenges one has faced in ones life, they pass don't they, you keep moving through it. At this moment, where you are now, however difficult it may be, you will move through it. So it's just again, the power of mindset, the power belief. Yeah, that's my kind of top tip, just to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel. You've got this far, you've overcome other challenges and difficulties and you'll overcome this as well. So in terms of my contact details, I suppose you can reach me at my email address, which is Monike.olusola@gmail.com, spelt with a K there, not a C for Monica.
Monica, and will drop because I've been calling you consistently, but in a completely different spelling.
It's just the email address that's spelt with a K, but normally I spell it with a C. So you're right, not to worry, Richard.
Perfect, thank you. Thanks, Monica, so I guess that leave Carl.
Yeah, okay. Well, the biggest tip has sort of been stuff that has been mentioned before about mindset and surrounding yourself with a community. I think there's a couple of smaller things for me because I'm focused on cashflow, kind of making sure that the personal finances are up to date, you've a got a clear view on what's happening there, but also for the projects, making sure how ... financially. In terms of working full-time in property, one thing that's really helped me is to work at shared desk space, so I've got a young family, two young kids, so it can be challenging working from home. I haven't had much option during the lockdown, but yeah, but working in a shared desk space has been really, really useful and I mean, it really increases your productivity level when you focus. I'm a bit more... Yeah, in terms of contact details. You can find me on LinkedIn, maybe pop that on the show notes, or my email address is carl, C-A-R-L, @accoladeproperties.co.uk.
Very nicely done. Very nicely done. And what an absolute pleasure, it's been brilliant, guys, guys and girls, sorry, to share with you some element of your journey and I'm sure everyone listening in has taken away so much as well. It's exceeded my expectations actually, lots of quality, lots of rich content here. I'm sure loads of people are going to be inspired by listening to you. In my world Second-Steppers, but superstars. I'm just going to refer back to Monica's phrase earlier, that we all have superpowers, and I think you've all got that superpower burning within you and I just wish you all the best as you continue that journey. And I'm looking forward to maybe share a sip of a cold beer or piña colada on a beach sometime soon.
Looking forward to it. [crosstalk 01:20:59].
Yeah, thank you, Richard.
Thanks very much.
Cheers, Rich.
You're awesome. Thank you. Bye.
Well, I don't know. I just watched back, actually, the video recording from both part one and part two in readiness to do the wrap-up really from this conversation. I watched it at 1.75 speed so it looks quite different when you do it that way. And by the way, if that appeals to you, most of the videos from this series are also available at the Property Voice YouTube channel, which you can set to playback at different speed settings. So if you can cope with a 1.75 or even a 2X speed, you can actually get through it a lot quicker, as you can on audio, obviously.
But needless to say, what struck me as I was watching it back was just how much... And I said at the time actually exceeded my expectations, the conversation, and that's not because I had low expectations. It's because there was so much rich content that the five guests that we had in the round table panel discussion format were able to share. There's so much actually. And I think some of the key points that came out of it that I noted down is... One of them is character, or characteristics. Traits, if you like, that we might need.
I'm not going to list them all. But people were talking a lot about perseverance and belief and confidence, and the ability to keep going. I think Monica talked about that we've all got super powers, and ironically superpower isn't necessarily that we can bend a fork with our own eyes, or we should be in the Invincibles or something like that. And very often a superpower is just gritty determination to push through perhaps when other people would give up, because it's people who push through and people who are optimistic and people who look at solving problems that actually are going to succeed in this game. So there was a lot of character references there that I thought that was really interesting.
Of course, there was quite a lot of book references and all the other media references. I started to tot them up. Maybe I'll put some in the show notes. There was a four-hour work week, for example. There was Rich Dad Poor Dad. There was Atomic Habits, I seem to remember. Think And Grow Rich from Napoleon Hill. And then we had a couple of video channels or YouTube channels with Ryan Serhant channel. We had the Tim Ferriss channel. There's a bunch of other ones that were name-checked along the way as well. [Ethan Frog 00:00:02:31], that's right. I remember that one. So yeah, there was quite a lot of resources and I think that's the other thing that really struck me.
There was a big emphasis on personal development and growth amongst the people in the room. And some people are still finding their way in terms of that personal development and growth, but it's really helping them to expand. And it's not just personal development, it's also business development. Some of it perhaps is a little bit informal, but there's definitely a grounding and a foundation there.
I think there was also this talk about purpose. It came out a little bit, didn't it? I think Monica, again, just to name-check her, she talked about legacy, and that she's developed this big vision, if you like. 15 years in, by the way. And then we had this two-hour conversation on a Friday night that we talked about, where she really got in touch with her destiny, I guess, and is really on a quest now to live that out.
And Sven talked about the fact that he went through a period of self... Or forced reflection, I think, was his phrase, wasn't it? Forced reflection, where his a joint-venture business partner basically said that she wanted to retire. Well, he's nowhere near retiring, and had to really think about what next for him. And it coincided with the birth of his daughter as well, and he started looking beyond himself. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? Looking beyond yourself. It's not all about the money. Money helps, but it's not all about the money. And if you've got money, you can actually help other people too, whether it's in your immediate family or beyond.
Then there was this yin and yang of focus and being flexible. So being focused and being driven and having habits and being efficient and work and being productive, and focus on income-generating tasks and all that stuff, is one half of the equation. But the other half is to be flexible and have an open mind and try different things and see what works for you and be flexible and adaptable to different stages in the market. So there's this dichotomy between being focused on the one hand and being flexible on the other hand. And you need both, and it's difficult to strike the right balance, of course.
Then there was a lot of talk about surrounding yourself with others in general, which added up to things like having mastermind groups. There was a few people, of course, who had come off my own apprenticeship program, but not just exclusively. There was also networking groups Anthony himself runs up in the north-east. So having, having access to others, surrounding yourself by others, being lifted up by others. We talked about either having the vision or having input from other people will really help you on the journey. So that was another key takeaway.
I've summarized this next point as de-risking. De-risking the journey. And people talked about de-risking it in a number of different ways. So one of the most obvious ones just to have multiple income streams or sources of income. So some people you heard talk about, "Oh, I've got a day job or a part-time job in property, as well as striving to be an investor or developer in property." So they're perhaps working in and around property, or they've got multiple sources of income that are coming in, or they perhaps have a runway, as Carl described it, of savings, so that you can give it a good run. So it doesn't have to be shit-or-bust sort of thing that you have to just pile in, go full-time in property and go, "That's it. I'm going to make it work and I've got three months or something." You can do it in a more controlled way, I think is the takeaway there.
Just going back to the characteristics, being an optimistic problem-solver seems to be one of the key characteristics that most of the group latched on to. And I just want to finish really on the whole point of superpowers again, because we do have superpowers and we perhaps need them at times. But actually those superpowers are not that super. They're just different. They're just extraordinary. And you heard five ordinary people really, and I don't mean to put anybody down with that description or that label. That's not my intention. My intention actually for this whole series is to showcase what I call everyday, ordinary people who are really making a go at this, and they're either at one end of the extreme or the other end of extreme.
Over the next couple of weeks, you're going to hear people who are fairly well starting out. The people on the last two weeks, including the guests today, have stepped out and they're along the path. So you're seeing people at different points in the journey. And each one of them has got their own vision, living out their own dream or their own goals and plans to go forward. And they're doing it in their own way, but they are all super powers that they, they express. So they're superstars to me, that's for sure.
So there we go. Hopefully that's been helpful to have a little summary, to enjoy the discussion that we had over the last couple of weeks with the second-steppers. Next week, we are going to turn our attention to the newbies, as I'm going to call them affectionately. But meanwhile, these show notes from today are going to be over at the website, thepropertyvoice.net, along with the transcription, along with contact details of all of the guests. So if you want to connect with anyone, that's the place to go. If you want to read it back in some way, that's the place to go for that.
If you want to talk about anything from today's show, you know you can email me, podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, and I'd be more than happy to hear from you. But I guess that's it for this week on The Property Voice podcast. Join me again next time, when we talk about the newbies of going to full-time in property, but hopefully you've enjoyed the last couple of weeks where we talked to the second-steppers. And I guess all that remains is to say, thanks very much for listening once again this week. And until next time on The Property Voice podcast, it's ciao ciao.
Thank you for listening today. Not head over to thepropertyvoice.net for more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the Property Voice Podcast. And if you enjoyed the show, please don't forget to rate us on iTunes.
That's all from me this week, remember if you want to talk about anything from today’s show, or just talk property investing more generally, email me at podcast@thepropertyvoice.net, I would be happy to hear from you! The show notes can be found at our website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thanks very much for listening again this week, so all that left to say is ciao ciao!